[Coximus]

As said - I have space to carry about 30 ewes over winter - I dont have but would like to try a few of breeds I have never had before and see how they do, I would also be interested in anyone with any of these i know and love;

Easycare
Castlemilk Moorit
Hebridean
Swale
Ryeland
Podgy mixed up homebred crossbreeds with spotty faces

any anything else.

[Buffy the eggs layer]

Hi Coxi,


  my Ryelands are high end breeding stock so not what you are after for running through winter but you may find something for the right price to fatten /finish at the rare breed sale at York Auction Centre  on 2nd and 3rd of Oct.


I have yet to find a Ryeland there that was good enough for my flock as they seem to be on the small side and I breed larger meat / show Ryelands but to be fair the quality is reflected in the price so it might be worth a look to bag a handful at a good price. The quality of the primitives always seems very good though ( I say that as someone who doesn't keep primitives so it might be worth asking around on this one )


If you dont find what you want in the ring its always worth chatting to breeders to see what they have back at home.


I guess my only caveat would be that if you are doing it as an experiment to see who finishes the best then poor stock are never going to do as well as good stock so you might not get a fair representation of the true performance potential of the breed.......


Sounds like an exciting project though so do let us know how you get on.

[Porterlauren]

As said - I have space to carry about 30 ewes over winter - I dont have but would like to try a few of breeds I have never had before and see how they do, I would also be interested in anyone with any of these i know and love;

Easycare
Castlemilk Moorit
Hebridean
Swale
Ryeland
Podgy mixed up homebred crossbreeds with spotty faces

any anything else.

From what I have read I think you are doing it commercially?

Can only think of two of the breeds that you've mentioned that are really much use for that (and i know i'll get shot down for saying that!).

[Coximus]

I do it comercially yes - but also I like to dable and experiment - sometimes you find something that is surprisingly profitable - for example per ewe and per acre hebrideans crossed to a texel or even a 1/2 texel / 1/2 heb ram are more profitable than most comercial mules or pures I know of - They lamb at 160-170% and finish in 5-9 months and sell for between #50 & 70 depending on weight. The hebridean genetics it turns out are for a lean finish carcase which helps stop the lamb running over fat, letting you take them from 35kg to 45kg weight while hitting R3L and sometimes U3 as well.

That they eat less food and are generally long lived makes them more profitable.

Then again I had some soays and they struggled to cross breed and I only kept 2 in the end and crossed them out to hebrideans to make use of them.

Its generally a case of finding something to cross onto the breed that produces at least a bigger and also better body.
I hope to try charmoise rams over many this year as having seen some of the resulting crosses of these on shetland and Herdwick ewes, I feel They make be THE perfect breed to cross onto hill breeds and primitives.

[Porterlauren]

Is that why you're getting rid of the hebs and looking at other breeds? 

To be honest, everything you say about the hebs, I find true of my ewes, only they produce a bigger lamb and quicker.

And days to slaughter is basically EVERYTHING in terms of profit.

Good luck!

P.S The charmoise are very good. . . . . but will be interesting to see how they do over a small and slow growing ewe breed . . . . .

[Coximus]

What breeds do you keep out of curriosity?

I intend on keeping the hebs, although I ideally want to long term run 350-400 ewes comprising of 2-3 breeds and a small flock of xbreds.

I am yet to find a breed that eats as little per ewe as hebrideans, with me having 22 + 31 lambs (pure in this case) in a 4.6 acre field since April and the grass is still just under knee high - and it will see them through till xmas before they need moving, or feeding.

Crossed lambs obivously eat more.

As for days to slaugther - I was always taught days to slaughter is really how much grass do they eat a day x days - eat half the grass, twice the time, roughly the same cost, as most costs are fixed such as time checking flock and traveling etc.

That said - Always on the look out to improve.

[Porterlauren]

I'm sure you might know me from another forum. . . . .

Exlana and Easy Care. Currently bred back to a shedding maternal ram, with the ewe lambs put to some charmoise, and this year a bunch of ewes to a NZ suftex.

Out of interest why 3-4 breeds and x breeds? Would it not be easier and more efficient to standardise your flock and keep a consistent and 'typey' ewe?

Having sat through various lectures / seminars I am lento believe that days to slaughter or 'days on farm' is the biggest key profit indicator for a number of reasons. With regard to grass, your most productive 'fattening' grass would be grown April - August, anything after that and the quality reduces etc. Also I guess there is the increased risk of disease, death etc, and also the possible need for extra interventions and products (strike prevention, worming etc). Also, over wintering fat lambs means less ewes can be over wintered. I also find that when I have lambs on, I have more mobs of sheep (ewes, ewe lambs, ram lambs etc), where as over winter I pretty much set stock the flock somewhere by a road and don't do much with them other than keep an eye out for anything sick / dead as I drive by. They are then gathered for scanning and the tups taken out, and we go on from there.

[Coximus]

multiple breeds as I farm a mix of land, from grade 1 arable grass leys rented in for 3 years, so best suited to Lleyn put to texel/char etc.

Valley sides, fertilie low lying but wet and stoney ground, prone to acidity and impassable to machinery in places (1000 m from the grade 1 stuff).

Further away I have grazing on some moor land - which is great and cheap in summer and suited best to tough primitives, and they also give flexibility to run on when the winter weather isnt too harsh, saving winter feed.

And on top of all that I have some run of the mill Grade 3/4 pasture ground, reasonable enough and good for fattening lambs.

My land is scattered in the wharfe valley.

In short my system works like this;

2-3 smaller flocks living on poorer land feeding lambs to finish on the the pasture ground, and on the arable ley.

I would love to be a bit simpler but a) i derive some pleasure from the different types of ground I run,
B) I have what I have and cant find a 300 acre farm for 50 quid!

What other forum may that be? Facebook?

[Porterlauren]

Thats something I struggle to understand . . . . . the silly stratified system here. Look at places like NZ where they have a fraction of the breeds (and a fraction of the ram breeders ironically), and you will find the same breed run on a vast variety of ground. I think it would be possible to run the same breed across all of the ground, but simply target the ground to when it suits certain stages of life / growth / cycle etc. Maybe just me though!

However, I can very much see your system, and if it works, then it works, only you will know that!

Aye I'm fairly sure you've seen a couple f my posts on the charmoise breeders page on fb and also on TFF.

but here are some of the ewes anyway!



And a couple of fat lambs

[Coximus]

ah I think I spoke to you about a trip to wales to buy a ram!

My system works, as I only own about 1/3 the land I run on - so I have to work with what is there. Also The moor land is in a steward scheme so can only be grazed at certain times etc, so the breeds need to be capable of making use of whats on the hill from July - Feb.

Also the mix of land types makes me vunerable to bad weather, with the rougher ground meaning either alot more hay cost - or a breed like the heb which can live on a snow capped hill and not loose condition.

If I owned it all - and could re-seed alot of it, I could change it from a yorkshirefog sward in places to my prefered clover/cocksfoot/trefoil mix and run 1-2 breeds.

[Porterlauren]

I think you may have spoken to a friend of mine, the person I bought my rams off.

As long as your system works, thats all that matters.

I don't own any of my ground and can't re-seed any of it, which is a shame. Possibly in the future. But currently its all old PP, apart from a bit of dairy keep. Some of it is very high, but half decent grass, and prone to being snowed in.

I just find it easier to run one breed and concentrate on it. I think finding sheep that suit your system or land is probably more in the breeding than the breed.

However, I have ended up with a pretty little pedigree flock of charmoise, along side the commercials, because I've been impressed with the rams. But they just get run with the commercials and left to it.

[Old Shep]

We have some Suffolk x texel gimmer lambs (either 1/8th or 1/4 Suffolk) if you are interested?  We are near Skipton.  (PM for details)

[Coximus]

PM Sent Ta

As for breeds - I would love to even focus on one breed - but I cant think of one breed that is so versatile and I suppose the shear number of breeds in the UK is testemony to that - I've had herdwicks before and found they did great on wet rocky ground but fell apart on wet peat, move them back and they were fine - the reverse was true for the Blackies I had - since all gone - One day in the distant future When I own a nice little farm, i may concentrate on one thing.

[Marches Farmer]

Thats something I struggle to understand . . . . . the silly stratified system here. Look at places like NZ where they have a fraction of the breeds (and a fraction of the ram breeders ironically), and you will find the same breed run on a vast variety of ground.

The breeds in NZ are there because they came from UK flocks in the first place.  And when they shipped them over they didn't see the point in walking Swales down the length of the country, they just took the breeds nearest to the ports they sailed from.  UK sheep breeds evolved to suit their own area - a Romney wouldn't thrive in the Highlands.  Similarly in Australia the Merinos that were used to improve the fleece of the UK Down breeds in the 1780's couldn't cope with our climate but were shipped to Australia and thrived in the much drier one that was similar to their original country.

[Porterlauren]

NZ has a large range of different climates and landscapes and the Romney seems to thrive in pretty much all of them. I think if you cull hard and breed selectively, you can achieve some pretty amazing things . . . . . . .