[Buffy the eggs layer]

Hi


   my little Kune lads are 12 weeks old this week and I just wondered what vacs and / or meds they should be treated with. They were injected with wormer at 9 weeks when we collected them ( Noromectin ) and have gone onto pasture which is clean and lush.


I watched an episode of Jimmy's farm last night which was probably a mistake. He seems like a lovely man but he loses livestock more often than I loose the shed key! Apart from all the poultry he lost to the fox, he lost a significant number of expensive and very rare Essex saddle back pigs to pneumonia and other preventable disease.


I know the saying that "where there is livestock, there is dead stock" but the control freak in me would ideally like to limit the dead stock bit to be a result of old age or a trip to the abattoir.


Are pigs really that susceptible to pneumonia as a result of temperature / humidity change or are Jimmy's rare breed porkers just a very weak strain?


 

[hughesy]

Well I can only speak from experience. We don't use any routine medicines. We've had to use antibiotics twice in over five years due to mastitis in newly farrowed sows. Other than that nothing. We have on average about 60 to 70 pigs at any one time and keeping them outdoors with enough space seems to keep them healthy. It's only my opinion but I think routine preventative dosing of pigs is not necessary if they are kept in good conditions.

[Buffy the eggs layer]

Thats encouraging hughesy,


    my boys seem fit and healthy and I too dont like to medicate for the sake of it but Jamies outdoor pigs were dropping like flies!


   

[harmony]

I haven't seen Jimmy's Farm but the more pigs you keep should one catch something the greater the potential for it to spread quickly. High stocking levels and a build up over many years of keeping pigs on the same land will increase this chance.


If you have healthy stock and you have put them onto virgin ground you would be very unlucky. Pneumonia can be site specific. Low lying ground with poor airflow.


I wouldn't worry about it.


As for Essex pigs, is there such a thing? The Essex and Wessex breeds were amalgamated to make the British Saddleback. Some lines tend towards either Essex or Wessex but whether there is still a true Essex to be found is another debate.

[Small Plot Big Ideas]

Having had 3 lots of weaners so far with absolutely no problems and now moving on to pedigree Tamworth breeding, I had watched old episodes of Jimmy's Farm with interest when we first moved to our place.


It didn't take me long to suspect that - much like the River Cottage series - most of the "disasters" are included more for entertainment purposes. Not to say I didn't get lots of useful ideas and information from those programmes but I just don't take them too seriously any more!

[shygirl]

I will vaccinate for erisipilus next time I have a breeding herd. our vet said not to bother but we did lose some youngsters for some reason and I suspected it was this. when you have larger resident herd you have to increase your health regime IMO. fattening weaners is different.

[SophieLeeds]

Are pigs really that susceptible to pneumonia as a result of temperature / humidity change or are Jimmy's rare breed porkers just a very weak strain?

As said by others above, I do truly believe its related to the conditions in which you keeps your porkers! I keep 80+ breeding sows and never had any problem or inkling of an issue with pneumonia (I have had to use medicines for other reasons).

However, this year I've been buying in fresh stock (not in large numbers) from some of the 'best' breeders in the UK, many of whom are owners of Pig of the Year titles - and every single one of them has arrived with pneumonia 
I've managed to treat them all in time and they're all in excellent health now, but it does make you wonder!! I shall say no more as I was on the verge of questioning the BPA when the second batch arrived also suffering from it....

[Buffy the eggs layer]

Oow


  some interesting replies there guys   Sheep have a predisposition to pneumonia. They often become a bit wheezy or rattly when under stress or if their health is compromised by other factors. Perhaps pigs are the same?


 I go to all sorts of lengths to minimise stress levels in all my animals but I must confess the muddy morass that masqueraded as a communal sty for Jimmy's pigs did make me think that my animals live in luxury.


Or do they just live in an environment that is suited to their basic needs for health and vitality. As a person who has had pneumonia twice I know how it feels and how easily it is cured with antibiotic so I see no reason to wait for them to die of it.


Different approaches for different systems I guess.


 

[hughesy]

There are some good points being made here. Indeed it is very different fattening a few weaners compared to keeping a larger breeding herd. The same principles apply though regarding living conditions. Pigs kept in intensive systems will be very susceptible to disease simply because of how they are kept and that's why the "industry" stuff their pigs full of chemicals.
I too have bought pigs from a very well known and successful breeder that proved to be less than satisfactory. I bought unseen based on the breeder's reputation. Won't make that mistake again.

[shygirl]

our health problem began after buying in a new gilt. closed herd is the way to go maybe.

[Buffy the eggs layer]

There is a lot to be said for a closed herd / flock but sometimes new lines have to be sought. I never buy at auction because of the disease risks and always like to buy off farm and see the rest of the stock and how the animals are kept.
I will be moving from fattening to breeding later this year so no doubt vaccinations will crop up again.


With regards to meds though. I always think that if you have the time to keep a close eye on your stock you can administer the required treatment as it is needed rather than using drugs such antibiotics as a "just in case" treatment.


I will have a chat with the vet about sow and piglet vacs. The important thing though is that you didn't all say that pneumonia was a high likelihood with out door pigs.

[hughesy]

I would have thought it was far more likely to occur in a herd kept indoors. It's certainly never been a problem here.

[Buffy the eggs layer]

Thats what I would have tought too Hughesy.


Harmony, you are quite right about the Essex and Wessex amalgamation into the British Saddleback.  Perhaps there are a tiny number of Wessex left too.

[HappyHippy]

We vaccinate for erysipelas (it's treatable but affects joints and pigs shouldn't be bred from after having it as I believe joint problems can pass to the offspring) and worm regularly.
We don't give a parvo vaccine - mainly because we've not had any problems, if we did I would.
Show pigs/herds are far more open and susceptible to disease (sorry, that's not meant to offend anyone!) but the fact is they are regularly housed with large numbers of other pigs, come into contact in the ring (or people passing a row of pig pens and patting them all as they go  ) Add to that a fair bit of travelling in humid conditions (those little trailers get pretty hot with pigs in!) and you've got the perfect breeding ground for infection and disease unfortunately 
All new stock (no matter where it comes from) should be isolated away from other stock on arrival (3 weeks is long enough for anything which is incubating to show itself) and you should be bio-secure conscious - separate feed containers, wash footwear/hands as a minimum when going between the new one and your existing pigs to stop transferring anything.
Pigs that are kept well and in low stress conditions are generally pretty resistant to illness I think.

[MarthaR]

I have recently made the transition from raising weaners to a small scale breeding project. Prior to this I did worming and nothing else pre-emptively. I have now decided to vaccinate breeding stock for erysipelas after experiencing it twice in 3 years and finding it very scary in the speed it develops and the impact it has - both animals were treated with meds quickly and fully recovered. Other than that, I keep some antibiotic/anti-inflammatory on site for rapid treatment of illness in conjunction with speaking to my vet. I have used this recently for a piglet struggling with respiratory problems and another who was scouring. I am lucky enough to have Bob Stevenson (legendary pig vet) attached to my local practice and he's trained a couple of other younger vets there. They have been superb in helping me with concerns with small piglets and knowing when to vaccinate for things which pose a real risk versus reactive treatment of illness.
Martha R