Agri Vehicles Insurance from Greenlands

Author Topic: Blue genetics again  (Read 4329 times)

Stereo

  • Joined Aug 2012
Blue genetics again
« on: July 27, 2015, 08:46:26 pm »
I bought a small flock of Black Australorps from a local guy earlier in the year. All perfectly black. I like them very much and have hatched a good few from the flock. Got some off results but decided to see how they grew. Ended up with a load of pure black birds. Some blue birds and also one bird that is black and white. I'm guessing she is splash but the pics of splash aussies are much whiter than she is. Maybe she'll go that way.

Anyway, what can I assume from this hatching? Some of the birds have a blue gene? Is it fair to say that the the blue gene is in some of the hens as if the cockerel had it, they would be blue? Or I suppose they would be 50/50 blue and black which is pretty much what I've got. Hmmm.

Question is, can I work this one out somehow? How would I find out where the blue is coming from? I don't really mind as they are lovely birds but not happy selling eggs as black if customers are going to get mixed results.

How do I find out where the blue is coming from?

Buffy the eggs layer

  • Joined Jun 2010
Re: Blue genetics again
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2015, 07:46:40 am »
I breed blue Croad langshan bantams so blue is my favorite chicken colour but I get your point re selling your eggs in the future.


Blue is a relatively new colour for my breed and as a result does not breed true. Therefore it is not recognised by the breed society. The blues come from black on white, blue on black or splash on black and only a percentage of blues come from each pairing. Blue on blue results in splash or blue but can result in black as the blues have both black and white in them.



I dont know Australorps that well as they are a breed that I have never kept but Im asuming that blue is a recognised colour that breeds true ( so blue on blue breeds blue) If that is the case then apart from genetic testing you would never know for sure if the genetic propensity to produce blue was in the original blacks that you bought. Perhaps they were once blacks from blues?


As for the splash birds, the images of blues and splashes on the internet are often show birds which may have very good feather marking. The blues and splashes that you have produced may not be as well defines of have the colour depth of those chosen to show but are never the less still classed as blue or splash.


this might help  http://kippenjungle.nl/basisEN.htm




Clansman

  • Joined Jul 2013
  • Ayrshire
Re: Blue genetics again
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2015, 09:13:51 am »
Yep its going to be a matter of breeding individual pairs together and see what each produces with each other.

Its a long slow process but once you know what you've got genetically its easy.

Maybe the breeder you got them from could supply you with homozygous black birds?

Marches Farmer

  • Joined Dec 2012
  • Herefordshire
Re: Blue genetics again
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2015, 03:50:13 pm »
I seem to remember reading that the hen has more influence over chick colour than the cockerel ...?

Buffy the eggs layer

  • Joined Jun 2010
Re: Blue genetics again
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2015, 04:31:23 pm »
I think that that males and females do have a gender genetic role to play as the recommendation for my breed to produce blues is blue on black or splash on black for example not the other way around. Though part of the reasoning for this is not necessarily to ensure that the resulting colour is blue but that it has the depth of colour and defined lacing which is desired.


So white on black would produce blue but a potentially a watery or bronzy version. Your dark splash may offer a clue to the gene make up of your birds as a splash from two blues would be darker than a splash from a blue on a splash.


An other option is to bring in a black cock from another line. Someone is bound to have a beauty that they cant face sending to the pot. This would hopefully result in genetically dominating the combined colour gene that may be within your hens.

Stereo

  • Joined Aug 2012
Re: Blue genetics again
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2015, 01:45:12 pm »
Thanks all. What I don't really get is that all the parent birds are pure black. I take it that it's not that simple. The pullets all look true to standard so I may just sell the eggs as mixed colours. The blue ones are quite pretty. Is this the recessive gene thing? I kind of assumed there was one gene for colour and it was either on or off.

Buffy the eggs layer

  • Joined Jun 2010
Re: Blue genetics again
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2015, 02:07:49 pm »
OH Stereo!




   if only it were that simple :-\


 But dont worry you are not alone in assumptions. I wouldn't concider my self an expert but have learnt alot since breeding blues from white and black pairings of my breed. What goes on genetiacally in my birds however is different from those breed that do breed true with blue feathers. With mine its still pot luck.


 I also breed Ryelands which are traditionally white but carry a gene which means that the natural colour of the sheep is not suppressed. Therefore two white sheep from white parents can produce a black lamb or coloured Ryeland. The breeds society have just paid for an expensive scientific study into this characteristic and many people who had made assumptions about colour clues or conclusions were surprised to discover that they were quite wrong.



[/size]Colour is genetically very interesting and in the case of some breeds of poultry can be sex linked meaning that all the boy chicks will be one colour and the girls another. It makes selecting for breeding very simple [size=78%]

Clansman

  • Joined Jul 2013
  • Ayrshire
Re: Blue genetics again
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2015, 04:16:21 pm »
Genetics is fun but complicated sometimes!

Stereo I can give a simple example with my Japanese quail.

Standard coloured ones are a speckled brown partridge colour, this is a dominant gene.

White in quail is a recessive gene

So a quail who gets the standard coloured gene from one parent and the white one from another will still be a standard brown coloured quail although it carries the white gene.

If two of these are bred then the offspring will get either a dominant brown or a recessive white gene from each parent.

So

25% get both dominant brown genes

25% get brown from the male and white from the female

25% get white from the male and brown from the female

All of the above have the dominant brown gene and will be brown although some carry the recessive white

25% will get the white gene from both parents and will be white, these will always breed white if bred together, same as the brown birds with the double brown gene will always breed brown.

But some genes aren't fully dominant and it gets complicated :)


Stereo

  • Joined Aug 2012
Re: Blue genetics again
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2015, 11:57:51 am »
Yeah, that's what I'm trying to figure out. I thought if you bred black (BB) to black (BB) you get BB. Black to Blue (Bb) you get 50/50. I thought either Bb or bB came out blue but obviously my black birds are carrying blue genes somewhere.

As it is I've decided to stop doing the breed anyway. I want to focus more on my Marans.  I'll keep the hens I have in the laying flock for the egg box as they are lovely hens and lay loads of eggs.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2015, 11:59:51 am by Stereo »

doricdragons

  • Joined Aug 2013
Re: Blue genetics again
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2015, 03:10:09 pm »
This site has a "chicken calculator" that allows you to try different colours together and see what they produce.

http://kippenjungle.nl/kruising.html

 

Forum sponsors

FibreHut Energy Helpline Thomson & Morgan Time for Paws Scottish Smallholder & Grower Festival Ark Farm Livestock Movement Service

© The Accidental Smallholder Ltd 2003-2024. All rights reserved.

Design by Furness Internet

Site developed by Champion IS