[Pinecooler]

Hi all,

I have about 4 acres of land in Aberdeenshire, on which I currently keep pigs and poultry.

I have a field of roughly 2.5acres which when I look at every day I cant help but want to do something with it.

This weekend just past I met with a local breeder of Shetland cattle regarding getting a couple of steers from them.
(MODS: I know there is a Shetland Cattle sub forum but can you please leave this in the general cattle forum as my questions are quite generic)

My preference would be to get two steers a year apart in age, this would mean that I could slaughter/replace one steer a year and I would have my first meat next year. Although I've found nothing to say this is a bad idea, I have not really found anything to say it is a good idea either. The alternative is 2no newly weaned steers.

What I was hoping you all could help me with is to have the rose tinted glasses lifted off and any flaws/pitfalls in my plans made blatantly clear to me.

The key issues in my mind are as follows:
Space - The field they would be in would be 2.5 acres, it would not be my intent to take them in of a winter. I could install fencing to split the field to allow resting of part of the land. There is a 6acre are

Food/Water
Shelter
Transport
Abbatoir
Butcher





The field has just been cut and

[Pinecooler]

It seems I somehow managed to post this halfway through writing it, please see below an amended post:

The key issues in my mind are as follows:
Space - The field they would be in would be 2.5 acres, it would not be my intent to take them in of a winter. I could install fencing to split the field to allow resting of part of the land. There is a 6acre area of woodland that supported cattle in the past before it was cut off from its farm by a new road

Food/Water - The field has just been cut giving me 12 bales of silage which should see me through at least this winter

Shelter - I have a prior notification application processing for a field shelter . construction would be a 3.6m x  4m wooden structure with three sides and a roof on top of a 6m x 4m concrete base. These dimensions would comfortable meet the requirements for overwintering if I went down this route

Transport - I have a suitable vehicle for towing and can rent a stock trailer nearby

Abbatoir - There is a local abbatoir in Inverurie also options at Elgin and Grantown

Butcher - I have a good relationship with the local butcher who has processed my pigs to date. I am still to have a discussion with him re hanging

Vet - There is a local agricultural vet practise in the village. While I will not have a proper crush the shelter will incorporate a diy crush using a gate etc

[Marches Farmer]

My first thought is that you may have enough forage this year but would need to buy in next year.  Also, depending on your land, it's likely to get pretty badly poached by midwinter, not only around gateways but all over, which will inhibit grass growth going into next growing season.   So, basically, not enough land to keep 2 cattle on on year round.

[SallyintNorth]

My initial reactions were that I'm not sure that's enough ground, but it depends, of course, on the type of ground, soil, drainage and local conditions.

The one-in-one-out model isn't ideal; bovines should have herdmates of their own age and stage, and there's a heck of a difference between a just-weaned stirk and one that's 12 months older.  But it might work...

Food/Water - The field has just been cut giving me 12 bales of silage which should see me through at least this winter

I'm not sure how this would work.  Silage bales once opened need used up within 2 days really, 4 at max.

[shep53]

I also think that land space may be a problem and as sally says silage needs to be eaten quickly , if it  was more haylage then it would stretch to a week .   In order to keep them quite to handle and help finish them you might have to feed nuts .   If you try and split 2 beasts one into a trailer and one left in the field  both are going to get upset

[Bionic]

I know nothing about cattle but Backinwellies was selling a couple at the end of may because they were too heavy for her wet land. I'm only saying this because she has a lot more land than you do so consider very carefully.

[Backinwellies]

Just mention my name and up I pop!!  (Thanks Bionic).

Yes to out winter be very aware of soil conditions in such a small area. Also I wouldn't feed anything but small bales to 2 beasts or you will be wasting most of it.  (I used a small hay bale a day for 4 cattle last winter ... out wintered ... only rising to 1.5 when weather got really cold.)

   
 Maybe you could consider something smaller?   Dexter?  or would sheep be a better option?

[SallyintNorth]

If you try and split 2 beasts one into a trailer and one left in the field  both are going to get upset

I'd assumed the new one would be bought before the oldest was taken away.  So there'd never be one in the field.  Because there'd never be one in the field; any beast left alone would break out, or damage itself trying.  But this isn't ideal either, the bigger older two would be bullying the youngster until the oldest was taken away.

I haven't quite got my mind around the age logistics either.  Assuming you'd want the oldest away before it was 30 months, you'd need to be buying your youngster at under 6 months old.  Suckler calves are usually kept on their dams until 8 months, aren't they?  So you'd be getting it weaned early, just to suit the one-in one-out model.  Not sure I think that makes sense, to either you or the breeder.  And a 6 mo old calf joining a 'herd' of an 18 mo teenager and a 30 mo great big adult...    Not very sure about it, at all. 

You could look at buying in younger beef x calves from a dairy herd, and bucket-rearing, but you'd need to get two or more at a time.  Then you could sell one and butch one, or something like that?  But you'd need to be good at picking the hardy ones, many half dairy types wouldn't outwinter, certainly not at under 12 mo.

Could you winter them in the shed, let them out when the weather's moderate?

[Pinecooler]

hi all, thanks for the comments. in response please see below.


steers: The intention had been to introduce the new calf before despatching the eldest. if it goes past 30 months then id have to live with that. However: it seems the age difference as id expected is not going to work. I first got the idea based on getting an in calf cow with a calf at foot. remove mum and it seems it falls apart.


sheep: i have no interest in keeping sheep, i could probably rent the field to a local sheep farmer if i dont end up using it myself


ground: i am purposefully building a building that would be suitable for overwintering, id prefer not to close them in but if i found them too heavy on the ground i will do so. Also i have a good feeling about the adjacent woodland being available


feed: The silage was quite a last minute thought and not being able to find anyone local doing small bales i had to settle on large ones. as i dont have any suitable outbuildings, hay wasn't an option. I could always sell them on and buy in hay, expensive i knowbut i'm not doing this for the money.


Thanks again for the comments, i'm not going to be biting the bullet for a few months so plenty of time to be certain that i'm making the right decision.


Chris

[SallyintNorth]

it seems the age difference as id expected is not going to work. I first got the idea based on getting an in calf cow with a calf at foot. remove mum and it seems it falls apart.

Personally I am not a fan of a single-cow-and-her-calves setup, either.  Bovines need company of another bovine at the same stage and this is especially true for cows with calves.  It's a heck of a job, protecting calves on your own.

Sorry to have been the water on your fireworks.  Keep thinking, you might come up with something that'll work.  Especially if you can get the use of that 6ac woodland.

[oor wullie]

I think that you have a good enough set up for keeping a couple of steers for half of the year (the summer half), it is the winter half that you have to think about.

As others have said, 2 beasts will poach the ground quite a lot over the winter (even wee Shetlands), this is not just a problem in winter - the grass on the ground that we had our cows on last winter has still not recovered properly even though the cows have been off it for months, this reduces the summer grazing available and it becomes a bit of a downward spiral of degrading the land.

As you have thought you could keep them in your shelter, perhaps with a bit of a pen in-front of it.  Can you get water and a way of feeding them in the shelter?
Alternatively your woods are potentially ideal for wintering cattle.  Assuming feeding and water are easily arranged then I would probably go down this route.  Woods can give quite a bit of shelter and there will be plenty of interest for them.

I have a similar open fronted shelter and tied a calving gate across the front which made for an acceptable way of restraining a cow if needed.  Just an idea you might want to consider.

I think whatever you do you will probably have to buy in some winter feed but that is a small price to pay for the joy of having cattle.

[Scotsdumpy]

Hi, I dont want to add to the pros and cons of what and how to feed but if you are looking for good quality calves Mackies dairy near Oldmeldrum always have calfs (of varying stages) for sale. The breeds are mainly jersey/british blue and depending on wether you want to raise a couple for sending off to market before winter or do what weve done which is raise two females to breeding age.
Hope this helps!!

[SallyintNorth]

Hi, I dont want to add to the pros and cons of what and how to feed but if you are looking for good quality calves Mackies dairy near Oldmeldrum always have calfs (of varying stages) for sale. The breeds are mainly jersey/british blue and depending on wether you want to raise a couple for sending off to market before winter or do what weve done which is raise two females to breeding age.
Hope this helps!!

Well, there's a thought. You could buy a bullock and a heifer, rear them to 15 months, slaughter the bullock and sell the heifer as a bulling heifer.  Or if you wanted to keep them longer, get the heifer AI'd and sell her in calf when you're ready to send the bullock off.  If she doesn't hold to a service then you'd need to sell her in the fat or store ring, of course.

I doubt if Jersey x British Blue would be hardy enough to outwinter if it's wet, but between the shed (if it's very wet weather) and the wood if it's dryer, you could keep them comfortable.

If you do decide to go this route, make sure the heifer isn't the twin of a bull calf; they are generally non-breeders.

[shep53]

Buy a second big freezer and kill both at once

[Pinecooler]

Hi all,

My current thoughts based on the feedback are as follows:

Get 2 weaned steers (and maybe 1 a year older) in November

If the weather permits give them some time in the field to eat the grass that is there.

Once they start making too much of a mess of the land close them up in the shed for winter. Feeding them my silage and also bought in feed when the silage runs out.

The shed will have ~15m^2 internal and 10m^2 external space on concrete

In the spring let them loose.

If I got an older steer at the same time he will go off for slaughter after the summer, leaving the other two for another winter after which they will be slaughtered together when they come of age.

If I manage to secure the extra woodland I may rethink all of this.