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Author Topic: Highland Cattle, Common grazing and Jo Public  (Read 11722 times)

nutterly_uts

  • Joined Jul 2014
  • Jersey - for now :)
Re: Highland Cattle, Common grazing and Jo Public
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2015, 10:13:52 pm »
These days I believe farmers are advised to put up signs warning people there may be cattle on a public right of way. I think there was a recent court case when a severely injured walker said she would have avoided a route had she known cows were on it.

Surely though, by walking in the country, you should expect animals to be there? I understand why signs are useful but surely that is more courtesy than need?
But then again with people these days who knows..

Backinwellies

  • Global Moderator
  • Joined Sep 2012
  • Llandeilo Carmarthenshire
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Re: Highland Cattle, Common grazing and Jo Public
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2015, 08:52:38 am »
With any rights (eg the right to roam)  comes responsibilities (to the local people and their stock)

The younger generation (and I generalise!)  believe in their 'rights'  but seem to have lost the connection with responsibilities.
Linda

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harmony

  • Joined Feb 2012
Re: Highland Cattle, Common grazing and Jo Public
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2015, 10:04:58 am »
I think signs are intended to protect the farmer if an injury happens. Using the countryside is a right whether people agree with it or not, or find it a nuisance to them and their farming activity. Some accidents will happen because the user does the wrong thing. Some will happen because the user was in the wrong place at the wrong time. They may find themselves injured because of the actions of someone who passed through earlier.


Rights of Way are Highways and we would expect to see signs on roads that protect and improve our safety. I don't know whether people who use the countryside today have less commonsense, I actually doubt that, I think we just have more people using it so more chance for conflict. Also these days if people are injured they look for compensation so farmers need to protect themselves. A sign has to be cheaper than an injury claim.


Bulls are not normally the issue but the cows with calves. Fiestyredhead has already said she knows this bull is not the friendliest. She also asked should she let people through her croft to avoid the common gate? She seems to have serious concerns to me as to whether this particular bull should be on the common or not.


I don't know about Scottish Law but here should you allow people access across your land you run the risk of it becoming a right of way unless you make sure it is known it is only a permissive route that you can close again at any time.








Anke

  • Joined Dec 2009
  • St Boswells, Scottish Borders
Re: Highland Cattle, Common grazing and Jo Public
« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2015, 12:13:24 pm »
You all make it out that it is always Joe City Public that is killed or injured by cattle - however I believe far more farmers are killed/injured by their own livestock than walkers on a day out... it just usually doesn't get much coverage.

Me

  • Joined Feb 2014
  • Wild West
Re: Highland Cattle, Common grazing and Jo Public
« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2015, 12:20:13 pm »
With any rights (eg the right to roam)  comes responsibilities (to the local people and their stock)

The younger generation (and I generalise!)  believe in their 'rights'  but seem to have lost the connection with responsibilities.

I agree, but myself have found the most officious horrible people shouting about rights as they picnic on our lawn or forage for firewood/apples/give their offspring driving lessons etc have invariably had grey hair! So maybe we can't pick on an age group here! 

harmony

  • Joined Feb 2012
Re: Highland Cattle, Common grazing and Jo Public
« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2015, 12:50:25 pm »
Anke, this was about "Highland Cattle, Common Grazing and Jo Public" not about farmers being killed by their stock, which yes does happen. Farmers however know the risks of keeping livestock.


I agree with you Me it is often the older users who have more to say about their rights whether they are right or not.

fiestyredhead331

  • Joined Sep 2012
  • NW Highlands
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Re: Highland Cattle, Common grazing and Jo Public
« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2015, 09:11:23 pm »
Since starting this thread I have allowed several people to take a short cut and avoid any potential trouble.
The latest being a young couple from further South who were up on holiday with their 2 staffie dogs. It was a horrible wet day and as they came down the track (she had wellies, he had trainers on  ::) ) they came face to face with the bull, cows and calves.
Thankfully the female in this couple had the sense to warn her partner as he was just striding towards the bull with the dogs straining at the leash!!!
It was luck really that I'd even seen them and I shouted to them to backtrack and come through our gate at the top which they did and were very grateful (even if the bloke slipped and fell several times in his stupid trainers) and we even made their day as 6 goat kids had been born the day before so they got to see them on their detour  ;D
I suppose one of the points I was originally trying to make was that, as Anke says farmers get hurt every day by their own livestock, but what chance do holiday makers who don't know the potential dangers have?
keeper of goats, sheep, pigs, ducks, chickens, turkeys, dogs, cats, goldfish and children, just don't ask me which is the most work!

devonlady

  • Joined Aug 2014
Re: Highland Cattle, Common grazing and Jo Public
« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2015, 09:29:10 am »
But, if you are going to let folk use your land to avoid the cattle do, as Harmony said and make sure it doesn't become a recognised right of way. Put a sign up saying, something like "Although you are welcome to walk through here to avoid the cattle this DOES NOT designate this as a public right of way. Dogs must be kept on a lead at all times."
Oh, the joys of farming!!

Cosmore

  • Joined Jun 2015
  • Dorset
Re: Highland Cattle, Common grazing and Jo Public
« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2015, 10:26:14 am »
Hmm, I certainly wouldn't put any sign up giving a 'permissive route'. It could lead to all sorts of legal problems, not least of which is if someone had an accident and injured themselves on your land no matter how short the route. IMO it would be far better and legally safer for you to put up a sign at Both ends stating 'Keep Out, Private Land, NO public right of way or Access'. Then if people do ignore the signs and continue, they are trespassing at their own risk. Sorry to sound unsympathetic to the walkers, but you must protect yourself from a legal position, especially in todays legislative culture with accident and injury no win no fee lawyers proactively toting for business.

fiestyredhead331

  • Joined Sep 2012
  • NW Highlands
    • Facebook
Re: Highland Cattle, Common grazing and Jo Public
« Reply #24 on: August 29, 2015, 11:48:28 am »
i might need to put up signs myself saying beware of the friendly goats who may come up to search your pockets and pose for selfies  ::)
as for allowing access through my ground, its only ever if I see a potential issue, if I'm not here then they are on their own and my gate is small and tucked away in a corner so not obvious to walkers. Those who I have allowed access to are accompanied at all times, dogs on leads if they have any etc etc
keeper of goats, sheep, pigs, ducks, chickens, turkeys, dogs, cats, goldfish and children, just don't ask me which is the most work!

oor wullie

  • Joined Jun 2012
  • Strathnairn
Re: Highland Cattle, Common grazing and Jo Public
« Reply #25 on: August 29, 2015, 02:09:13 pm »
IMO it would be far better and legally safer for you to put up a sign at Both ends stating 'Keep Out, Private Land, NO public right of way or Access'.

Nope, in Scotland putting up that sign would in itself be illegal.

To quote the outdoor access code;
Everyone, whatever their age or ability, has access rights established by the land reform act 2003.  You only have access rights if you exercise them responsibly

Basically these access rights cover just about all land in Scotland and anyone can walk, cycle, ride a horse, wild camp wherever they want, whenever they want.  Both land managers and the public have responsibilities to each other in order to make it work.  The entire code can be found here  http://www.outdooraccess-scotland.com

Putting up a sign that flatly says "no entry" is not acceptable (and could get you in trouble), and if I came across that sign I would probably deliberately walk through it.  If on the other hand I came across a sign saying "please take care, there is livestock in this field and you may wish to consider an such and such alternative route" then I would probably avoid the field.  (Although putting up a sign warning about livestock when there is actually no livestock in the field is seen to be needlessly discouraging access and so is also not acceptable.)

JEP

  • Joined Oct 2011
Re: Highland Cattle, Common grazing and Jo Public
« Reply #26 on: August 29, 2015, 03:52:39 pm »
every one says about these access rights but does it include dogs
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oor wullie

  • Joined Jun 2012
  • Strathnairn
Re: Highland Cattle, Common grazing and Jo Public
« Reply #27 on: August 29, 2015, 05:34:56 pm »
Access rights extend to people with dogs, provided that the dogs are "under proper control"

The outdoor access code gives specific guidance as to the extra responsibilities that dog owners are under.

Cosmore

  • Joined Jun 2015
  • Dorset
Re: Highland Cattle, Common grazing and Jo Public
« Reply #28 on: August 30, 2015, 12:05:24 pm »
IMO it would be far better and legally safer for you to put up a sign at Both ends stating 'Keep Out, Private Land, NO public right of way or Access'.

Nope, in Scotland putting up that sign would in itself be illegal.

To quote the outdoor access code;
Everyone, whatever their age or ability, has access rights established by the land reform act 2003.

Ok, all noted, a bit different to England, I was writing from a Dorset perspective - I don't mind responsible walkers keeping to legal footpaths etc., but I'm dammed if I'd welcome them trampling willy nilly all over my farmland for many valid reasons. Surely it must sometimes cause a headache in Scotland?

JEP

  • Joined Oct 2011
Re: Highland Cattle, Common grazing and Jo Public
« Reply #29 on: August 30, 2015, 02:54:23 pm »
if they have got a right to walk on your land does it also apply to peoples gardens


 

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