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Author Topic: Lamb with massive overbite  (Read 10143 times)

Treud na Mara

  • Joined Mar 2014
  • East Clyh, Caithness
  • Living the dream in Caithness
Lamb with massive overbite
« on: July 05, 2015, 07:30:43 pm »
Well we had a surprise late lamb ten days ago from a two year old Jacob we thought wasn't pregnant. Anyway the lamb just didn't seem to get the feeding thing at all and we tubed 200ml of colostrum from his mum on his first day. That's when we noticed his overbite - it is literally about 1.5 cm. we didn't think he would be able to feed from his mum at all so started bottle feeding but keeping him with his mum in a smallish area next to field all the other sheep are in. I persevered for a week feeding him with a mixture of Lamlac and milk from his mum. (I found it really difficult to milk her) He never seemed particularly hungry and it was a real struggle to get him to take the bottle but eventually I worked out that putting it into his mouth sideways seemed to work and while he didn't seem to be sucking he did chew the teat and swallowed the milk that way.  BH was convinced that he could see him feeding from his mum but only for very short bursts. I wasn't convinced but decided to weigh him before feeds and he was indeed putting on weight that I wasn't putting into him! So I let him go for a whole day without me feeding and he seems fine, putting on weight, frisking about and generally looking healthy.
Sorry for the long story, but now the question - both he and him mum are sods to catch - so I am worried if I turn them out with the rest of the flock I'll never get near them again - so do I take the risk and let them out or should I keep them in their little paddock on their own next door to the rest ?
With 1 Angora and now 6 pygmy goats, Jacob & Icelandic sheep, chooks, a cat and my very own Duracell bunny aka BH !

Melmarsh

  • Joined May 2014
Re: Lamb with massive overbite
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2015, 07:47:29 pm »
I think the biggest question is ,when he needs more than mum's milk ,how will he get on ???? Speak to your vet but it sounds as though that is when it will suffer when it needs to eat more to grow. Good luck I think your right to try but it may come to nothing.  :hug:

shep53

  • Joined Jan 2011
  • Dumfries & Galloway
Re: Lamb with massive overbite
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2015, 08:16:43 pm »
PLEASE clarify if you are saying that you lambs bottom jaw is 1.5cm short ( undershot ) then not a problem most can suckle and eat grass , so long as not really short  or nuts /hay until ready to kill ,   2cm or more then its really a struggle .   IF the bottom jaw is 1.5cm longer than the top ( overshot ) then it will really struggle to eat as the teeth have nothing to bite against

waterbuffalofarmer

  • Joined Apr 2014
  • Mid Wales
  • Owner of 61 Mediterranean water buffaloes
Re: Lamb with massive overbite
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2015, 11:04:32 pm »
Well we had a surprise late lamb ten days ago from a two year old Jacob we thought wasn't pregnant. Anyway the lamb just didn't seem to get the feeding thing at all and we tubed 200ml of colostrum from his mum on his first day. That's when we noticed his overbite - it is literally about 1.5 cm. we didn't think he would be able to feed from his mum at all so started bottle feeding but keeping him with his mum in a smallish area next to field all the other sheep are in. I persevered for a week feeding him with a mixture of Lamlac and milk from his mum. (I found it really difficult to milk her) He never seemed particularly hungry and it was a real struggle to get him to take the bottle but eventually I worked out that putting it into his mouth sideways seemed to work and while he didn't seem to be sucking he did chew the teat and swallowed the milk that way.  BH was convinced that he could see him feeding from his mum but only for very short bursts. I wasn't convinced but decided to weigh him before feeds and he was indeed putting on weight that I wasn't putting into him! So I let him go for a whole day without me feeding and he seems fine, putting on weight, frisking about and generally looking healthy.
Sorry for the long story, but now the question - both he and him mum are sods to catch - so I am worried if I turn them out with the rest of the flock I'll never get near them again - so do I take the risk and let them out or should I keep them in their little paddock on their own next door to the rest ?
An overbite is a big problem, I would suggest to seperate him away from his mother to prevent damage to her bag. If he puts on weight from a bottle and other food that should be fine. He shouldn't have problems grazing or eating solids. I have dealt with this problem before. Also feeding him a powdered milk like shine or denkavit, it says 1ltr but I do 1200 ml so that it helps hydrate them and mix some yoghurt into the milk too that's to help good bacteria in the gut. I find denkavit and shine better powdered milks to use, as they contain more milk powder than lamlac, plus they grow better. Hope this helps and all the best. :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: July 05, 2015, 11:09:29 pm by waterbuffalofarmer »
the most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss and have found their way out of the depths. These persons have an appreciation, a sensitivity and an understanding of life that fills them with compassion, gentleness, loving concern.

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • ScotHebs
Re: Lamb with massive overbite
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2015, 12:00:58 am »
We had a tup lamb like that a few years ago.  We didn't notice at first, by which time he was well established with his dam.  He managed with no extra help at all, lived and grazed just like the rest.  The only slight difference was that he was the lightest deadweight of the bunch, but not by much.  Oh yes, we called him Parrot, and he gave me a beautiful spinner's fleece.
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landroverroy

  • Joined Oct 2010
Re: Lamb with massive overbite
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2015, 02:40:54 pm »
I would keep them on their own, if you're not confident about being able to catch them again. If you let  him  out and he can't graze then you've wasted your time and effort so far. He should by now be eating some solid food anyway. Has he got access to hay? He should be able to manage that ok, provided his back teeth meet reasonably well. Once you see him ruminating then you need to give him access to concentrates, somewhere his mother can't reach. Really it's a matter of trial and error and watching to see what he can manage to eat, and adapting things accordingly. 
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  and the obedience of fools.

Penninehillbilly

  • Joined Sep 2011
  • West Yorks
Re: Lamb with massive overbite
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2015, 03:15:58 pm »
PLEASE clarify if you are saying that you lambs bottom jaw is 1.5cm short ( undershot ) then not a problem most can suckle and eat grass , so long as not really short  or nuts /hay until ready to kill ,   2cm or more then its really a struggle .   IF the bottom jaw is 1.5cm longer than the top ( overshot ) then it will really struggle to eat as the teeth have nothing to bite against
I though overshot was when the top jaw was too long  ???

waterbuffalofarmer

  • Joined Apr 2014
  • Mid Wales
  • Owner of 61 Mediterranean water buffaloes
Re: Lamb with massive overbite
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2015, 05:51:21 pm »
No that's undershot. When our jaw goes back its undershot, when our jaw goes out its overshot.
the most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss and have found their way out of the depths. These persons have an appreciation, a sensitivity and an understanding of life that fills them with compassion, gentleness, loving concern.

Kimbo

  • Joined Feb 2015
  • Anglezarke, Lancashire
Re: Lamb with massive overbite
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2015, 06:43:35 pm »
WBF is correct. Easiest way to remember is that undershot is called Parrot-Mouthed and overshot is called Bulldog-mouthed
Is it time to retire yet?

Penninehillbilly

  • Joined Sep 2011
  • West Yorks
Re: Lamb with massive overbite
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2015, 07:52:26 pm »
OK I'm getting mixed up with overbite and overshot seems they are the opposites.
Overbite is where the top teeth protrude

Tim W

  • Joined Aug 2013
Re: Lamb with massive overbite
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2015, 08:31:50 pm »
I've had lambs like this ---they seem to do fine until weaning and then struggle a bit

wean him straight into the freezer is my suggestion

Kimbo

  • Joined Feb 2015
  • Anglezarke, Lancashire
Re: Lamb with massive overbite
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2015, 08:39:55 pm »
Yes, overbite is really a human term. Its a parrot-mouth
Is it time to retire yet?

shep53

  • Joined Jan 2011
  • Dumfries & Galloway
Re: Lamb with massive overbite
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2015, 08:46:14 pm »
 I WAS  hoping that one of the vets would come in because the answer will only confuse   ,    OVERBITE  in humans is when the top central incisors slightly over lap the bottom central incisors    .      BRACHYGNATHIA     parrot mouth  / overshot is when the  mandible ( lower jaw ) is shorter than the  maxilla ( upper jaw )   in horses and dogs    ,,,      PROGNATHIA   monkey  / sow  /bulldog   mouth      undershot  , when the  mandible is longer than the  maxilla       according to  the net      AND YET in sheep we call them the opposite ,  go figure  :thinking: is it because they only have one set of teeth??       

waterbuffalofarmer

  • Joined Apr 2014
  • Mid Wales
  • Owner of 61 Mediterranean water buffaloes
Re: Lamb with massive overbite
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2015, 09:13:57 pm »
Quite possibly
the most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss and have found their way out of the depths. These persons have an appreciation, a sensitivity and an understanding of life that fills them with compassion, gentleness, loving concern.

Treud na Mara

  • Joined Mar 2014
  • East Clyh, Caithness
  • Living the dream in Caithness
Re: Lamb with massive overbite
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2015, 12:30:00 pm »
Thank you everyone, especially for clarification of the terminology. As a dentist's daughter I had just used the human terminology although it wasn't strictly correct as it is his lower jaw that is much shorter.  Anyway, I did talk to the vet and we have agreed to keep an eye on him for now. He is managing to eat grass and is cuddling so I did let them join the rest. It was funny watching him meet other sheep for the first time. So far so good and I expect it will just take longer for him to make decent lamb chop size. Oh and although his mum's udder was a little inflamed round one teat for a couple of days, that has subsided and he seems to have worked out a more painless way to feed. So fingers crossed everything continues to go well. Thanks again everyone.
With 1 Angora and now 6 pygmy goats, Jacob & Icelandic sheep, chooks, a cat and my very own Duracell bunny aka BH !

 

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