Author Topic: legislation for showing horned goats (Read 5334 times)

tattycat · « **on:** May 27, 2015, 06:24:20 pm »

Hiya all. A while ago I posted about my show goat with horns, and I seem to recall that folk were suprised that I was showing a goat with horns.

Due to just losing a beautiful kid, I'm rethinking the whole debudding thing.

I'm not a member of any club, as I basically cannot afford the fee for very little benefit, and after having posts taken down from an 'affiliated member of the BGS's' Facebook page for giving advice to people who asked( and we're ignored.....) I'm a bit more reluctant to join the organisation. Affiliated with BGS, however any paperwork DOUBLE the monies!!

Soo, if the aims of these organisations are to prevent cruelty and unnecessary suffering to the said animal....why oh why aren't these organisations doing more to encourage Pastern tagging, tattooing, and showing goats in their natural beauty?

And why oh why isn't the BGS insisting that these affiliated organisations encourage their members in these directions??

I've also been onto my local Agri department and been ignored. I've been asked for all my documents at show's when the next exhibitor who isn't even tagged is left alone.....all because I don't agree with tagging or debudding and would like to know the rational reasoning for the legislation....

Soo, do I join a group I don't agree with to get recognition for the quality animals I produce, and to get judged fairly at show's, and continue to maim them because the LAW says so??

And yes THEY enjoy the show's!! Especially my oldest Nanny who draws people in by making eyes at them!! It's the closest thing to a day off that I get, contributes to their hay and straw, and is good advertising!!
I keep horned and non horned goats.

Your thoughts please!!

verdifish · « **Reply #1 on:** May 27, 2015, 07:00:23 pm »

When did it become wrong to show horned goats

Brucklay · « **Reply #2 on:** May 27, 2015, 07:29:56 pm »

Your may not class my pygmy's as 'goats' but to me they are and I leave them horned - my sheep have horns and so do my goats - I love them.

Like you I do want to follow the rules and worry endlessly about the odd missing tag and was very happy to pay the money for pastern tags which I now can't get.

I've been on to Defra re this and been told the new supplier - think it was Dalton have got the licence but they say they are not doing them yet - so I single tagged a kid for a show and took the other with me in case all in the hope I can get pastern tags soon. Not sure I would be much good at tatooing.

I don't think you should be marked down for horned goats that's mad - keep up the good work

tattycat · « **Reply #3 on:** May 27, 2015, 09:48:39 pm »

Buckley, from what I've seen of Pygmy's they're ALL goats!!

Just as naughty nd loveable!!

gillsta · « **Reply #4 on:** May 28, 2015, 05:39:55 am »

I have to agree with Tattycat on that one Brucklay! "Pygmys are all goat" not just for looking cute either !

cans · « **Reply #5 on:** May 28, 2015, 01:53:09 pm »

In the Goat section at Doune & Dunblane Show we have classes for Pygmies. Whether horned or not isn't mentioned in the schedule, so it would be come as you are

verdifish · « **Reply #6 on:** May 28, 2015, 04:25:47 pm »

Can any one clarify that showing horned goats is banned/ frowned upon / encouraged ?

Talana · « **Reply #7 on:** May 28, 2015, 08:28:52 pm »

Sorry you have had a bad experience. There are no rules to prevent showing goats with horns -it's individuals preference as is being members of any society.Without people keeping clubs going there would be no shows no milk recording pedigree records awards goaty talks and get togethers. Many local clubs are struggling for members and when only a dedicated few giving up their free time doing all the organizing, a lot of clubs have given up. Pygmys Boers and Angoras bagots are commonly shown with horns, Some Dairy goat owners show with horns although the majority shown are naturally polled or disbudded. In the past some dairy breeds had in their breed standard must be polled or disbudded but not seen now in the bgs standards. I personally think there is risks with horns or disbudding it all comes down to what suits you and your goats best everyones different. I know other people who have lost a kid after disbudding. I am lucky my vets are excellent with the goats and when they have a new vet joining them for a time they only watch and disbudd under supervision. I personally prefer to disbudd as the majority of my herd are polled and I don't want to keep them separate and also for safety reasons to each other I have seen the damage done to a horned milker by another horned milker. (horn pierced soft udder major vets operation bill antibiotics and she died from septaceamia after a couple of weeks despite our efforts.) As for tags well i'm gonna keep phoning dalton about pastern tags although its worrying their website seems to have disappeared. I only put on pastern tag and dalton eid rototag which the heavier weight seals the wound better and causes no problems still in after 3 years also electric fencing helps a lot. Our sheep are a different story, the law is the law we can only protest to change the law. Some people tattoo -not for me,

Brucklay · « **Reply #8 on:** May 28, 2015, 09:29:22 pm »

Good post Talana - each to their own and live and let live - all goats are great - if I had my way I would have acres of them ............... Lets keep up the pressure to get the pastern tags back in production

gillsta · « **Reply #9 on:** May 29, 2015, 08:33:55 am »

Have to agree live and let live. It only takes one coment to put somebody off. All goats are cool whatever shape colour or size horney or not horney pure bred or heinz variety it does NOT MATTER ! Goats are fun. I would much prefer pastern tags as ear tags are horrible especially in wee pygmys.

mart6 · « **Reply #10 on:** May 29, 2015, 11:48:26 am »

Think it should be owners choice to disbud or not.
Pros and cons for both sides, had many a goat with head in a wire fence .
If the kids were around children you can understand the safety angle.One of the top Boer breeders dis buds for that reason.
But i must admit i am not keen on putting a new born kid that is a few days old through the stress of disbudding.
Looking at some of the latest show results looks like a lot are going dis budding route, even the bucks, have to say i like to see a buck horned seems to loose something imo when its dehorned

http://britishboergoatsociety.co.uk/2015-show-calendar/royal-welsh-show-2015-report-from-rob-grinnall/

tattycat · « **Reply #11 on:** May 29, 2015, 04:04:52 pm »

Thanks for everyone's input!!

Re goats with head in fence, my nanny had me run ragged the other year getting her head 'stuck' in the fence, until with the rattle of the food bucket she pulled it out herself!! And me with scratches all down my arms from fighting with her to get her head out of the fence!!

Prime example of why I love my girls!!

Lesley Silvester · « **Reply #12 on:** May 29, 2015, 08:27:21 pm »

Mine have got their heads stuck through hurdles and they have been disbudded. Again, they can get themselves free when there's food coming.

I've also gone out several times to rescue a goat who was walking around with a bucket hanging round her neck until last time when, before I could get to her, she calmly bent her head low enough for the bucket to stand on the ground, then slid her head out.

Goats! Who'd have them?

Well, me, obviously.

Maudlin-Matilda · « **Reply #13 on:** May 30, 2015, 08:29:38 pm »

It's a small world. I now live in Ireland just a few miles down the road from Tattycat - about exactly the same distance that I used to live from Mad Goat Woman of Madeley! (I'm a Wellington girl originally)

This is a really interesting and helpful thread as I had decided not to disbud this year and was kind of regretting it, until I saw what Tattycat went through last week, losing her lovely girl. It's good to read other experiences too.

After a nasty udder injury, I started putting flexible hose pipe on my horned girl's 'weapons of choice' but she soon learned to get those off. We now tape them on and although she has taught our wether (her son) to undo the tape for her, he generally gets bored before he gets it all off. Of course, she could still do some damage with the guards on if she wanted to, but so could the goats with no horns if they butted in the right place - the hose just shields the really pointy bits at the end and gives some protection for our other girls' udders if there is any shenanigans. She does look vaguely ridiculous but as the biggest diva on the smallholding (or is that me?), she does kind of ask for it!

Just one more thought on clubs and societies: I think that they do some invaluable work promoting all areas of goat-keeping and it's always good to have such networks of people who share a passion (or should that be hopeless addiction?) for all things goatie. In my experience though, some of these groups do have a tendency to be a bit of a 'closed shop' and set on a certain way of doing things, despite their worries about dwindling membership. It is often hard for newbies to find a voice amongst the 'old hands' and whilst there is no substitute for experience to some degree, there surely must be a place for new ideas and different opinions? But, as I say, that's just my experience.

Happy goating everybody!