[Penninehillbilly]

Just wondering
If we worm dams just after kidding , does the wormer pass through the milk to the kids, if so could this encourage the kids' parasite resistance to the wormer?
 
Also -
we worm after kidding because the goat sheds more worm eggs? (more to it I know)
if I've kept a goat in post kidding, when I worm her how soon would she be free of parasites to turn her into the fresh field so we don't contaminate  pasture?
looking forward to any advice and thoughts

[Anke]

I always continue to feed the milk to the kids after worming, because I have no choice to do anything else... no idea if it compromises their resistance. I wouldn't have thought the amounts that come through in the milk (as the wormer is given via mouth straight into their digestive system and not into the blood via injection, so I would have thought that most of it will exit via the usual way in their urine.

I normally leave mine in for a day minimum, preferably two, but they may have other ideas... I also usually use the same field all summer (except have no decided to vacate a field next to goats' field, so will now be able to rotate a bit more), and have not found it to be a problem. I usually only worm once per year, last year was twice.

Actually in order to slow down the development of resistance you are meant to either not worm all animals at the same time or turn out onto contaminated pasture to ensure that you have some worms re-ingested (so to speak) that are not resistant (i.e. did not survive the wormer given) so you have a "dilution" effect.  Mmmmmhhh... Does this even make sense? Sorry it's late, and I have to be back up for check on last pregnant girl at 3am... maybe I can give a clearer answer then  ...

[Penninehillbilly]

Thanks Anke
I understood till the dilution bit     
I think you once said you (or your goats) were 'worm free'?  I thought if I could worm once, following kidding, before putting onto fresh pasture, divide fields up and rotate, possibly followed by geese, over 7-8 weeks, I may manage to avoid using dewormers, or at least avoid using more than once a year.
Hope your girl kids OK, how many have you now?
 

[Anke]

Yes I had got to the stage of not worming for one whole year, but as I take the girls to shows and also have sheep in neighbouring fields (and both goats and sheep stick their heads through the fence) I guess I will always have to do a few worm counts just to make sure.

It is also quite different from sheep, my goats were showing signs of worms last autumn, and the counts were only about 300, so not high, but needed treatment (as runny poo and milk yield was reducing). In kids it can also be the double whammy of cocci and worms...

The dilution bit is that if you have a small number of worms that survive the treatment (and are therefore resistant to it) their offspring (as in the worms' offspring) will too and the goats will therefore only pick up resistant worm eggs in the new clean field (in due course), meaning that all the worms they then carry are more or less resistant to treatment with that particular wormer. BUt if they go back out into a "dirty" field for a few days, they will ingest non-resistant worms too, making the ratio of resistant to non-resistant worms burden more favourable to continue with the current wormer. You are diluting the effect of the resistant worms so to speak. Is that a bit clearer?

Once my last girl has kidded I take a sample of a few of them, and see if I need treatment. They have been inside for most of the winter so I am not expecting any (famous last words). Found last year that the nematode count was quite high in June, hence I needed worming then. Not sure if it will be similar this year.

Off to feed the 10 kids we already have, hopefully get another set of twins this week. Only got 3 girl kids so far, looks like a lot of goat curry next spring... Milking 7 nannies as well...

[ballingall]

We normally worm the milkers after kidding, but then I wouldn't worm adults again unless they were showing symptoms, or I had a worm count done. We make sure we rest our field for 6-8 weeks every year, but only have the one field. Find the kids generally will need done at some point, generally as Anke says worms and cocci.

Beth

[Penninehillbilly]

Thanks
been re-reading your post Anke, sort of understand the idea of dilution but still don't see how it helps the goat, she'd have more worms rather than fewer resistant ones?. but i'm hoping there won't be any resistant ones (or very few), using a completely different wormer, invectamin based?
I have a microscope and tried doing a worm count but couldn't see anything, when they've all kidded and been wormed I'll send some samples off.
Is 6-8 weeks enough Beth? that's what I'm thinking of for a rotation, after dividing a field into 4x 1acre and using other areas as well. I think I read somewhere Cocci can be on the land for 2 years? (just one of mine had a low count on the last test).
 
 

[Anke]

I am still trying to get my head around these theories... but also all this was developed for sheep not for goats, and adult sheep can tolerate a significant worm burden, whereas goats cannot.

Yes animal will have more worms if put back into dirty field, BUT you can treat them, when resistance is present you can (apparently) NEVER go back to that wormer, so one less to use. Also sheep are usually kept in their hundreds and rotation of grazing is quite complex, as there are never enough fields. You can house goats quite easily over winter, allowing your ground to rest much longer.

Cocci is much more a problem for housed kids I think (unless you really have a problem in your field), as the shed coccidia (from the adults) accumulate in the bedding and kids just nibble at everything and anything....