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Author Topic: calf not sucking  (Read 16204 times)

oor wullie

  • Joined Jun 2012
  • Strathnairn
Re: calf not sucking
« Reply #30 on: March 14, 2015, 01:06:35 am »
A vet showed me the tail technique a couple of weeks ago. 
Do Not twist the tail but hold it near the cow end and just lift it up.  This causes the cow to shift her balance slightly which makes it harder for her to take the weight off her back legs and kick.  You really need someone else to hold the tail whilst you are doing your thing at the udder.

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: calf not sucking
« Reply #31 on: March 14, 2015, 07:36:30 am »
What breed are the cow and calf?

Will the calf suck your fingers?
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

pointer

  • Joined Feb 2015
  • Hebrides
Re: calf not sucking
« Reply #32 on: March 14, 2015, 09:12:27 am »
Farmvet

Thanks for this. Everyone's being very helpful, I'm torn between leaving off the feeding so he's motivated to suck, and feeding him enough to make sure he doesn't expire. But if you think he will eventually suck after a while then I'll continue tubing 1l 3 times a day in the meantime - but he'll need to figure it out before too long! Point taken about the crush as well, I think I'll have to abandon that idea for now. Calf is AAx, out of AAx mother.
I left them penned all night, and I'm pretty sure he's still not sucked.

pointer

  • Joined Feb 2015
  • Hebrides
Re: calf not sucking
« Reply #33 on: March 14, 2015, 09:34:24 am »
Sally

Sorry, didn't see your message. He'll do a wee bit of half-hearted sucking on fingers. I said in my last post mother and calf were AAx, that was wrong, mother is LIMxAA, calf is AAX. My options seem to be:
1. Keeping tubing a litre of powdered milk 3 times a day, keep him penned, he'll suck eventually;
2. Restrain mother and force calf on to udder. But crush not suitable for this, and the other methods (which I tried) carry real risk of kicking! And he showed no inclination to suck while doing so. Even earlier this morning, 12 hours after last feed, he just got up and had a halk-hearted sniff around Mum's nether regions before wandering off. But I haven't tried the 'tail technique'.
3. Minimal feeding, so he gets really hungry and starts suckling.

Or a combination of the above. I'm inclined to option 1, but still welcome all advice. Thanks

landroverroy

  • Joined Oct 2010
Re: calf not sucking
« Reply #34 on: March 14, 2015, 09:57:51 am »
 c Native breeds (like yours) tend to have a much better survival instinct and more persistence at suckling than continentals. I have never had a healthy calf that didn't suck when hungry, but have had a few that I was pretty sure hadn't fed, completely refused the bottle of colostrum I'd made for them, then in the struggle to get some down them, produced the classic yellow bowel movement  that proved they had fed after all.
The calf won't starve now if you leave him for at least 12 hours without tubing to see what happens. I know you're getting conflicting opinions on this as we've all had different experiences.  But nature has produced a very effective way of  cows and calves responding to each other. The calf initiates the milk let down by either nuzzling the udder, or bellowing because it's hungry. But it won't do either if its stomah is full.
I had a Hereford heifer calve outside a few weeks ago. She was a bit reticent about letting the calf suckle - pushing it away with her back leg and moving off, but she obviously wasn't going to beat it up or kick its head in, so I kept a close eye on them all day. I never saw it suckle once, so come dusk I decided to try some of that colostrum powder I got free in the Rumenco calving pack. (Thanks Rumenco - greatly appreciated. :wave: ) But my son checked as it got up from it its straw nest where it had seemed to be all day, and there was the classic yellow bowel movement of digested colostrum. I never saw that calf actually feed off its mother for the next  days, but it obviously was, and it's doing fine.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2015, 01:56:37 pm by landroverroy »
Rules are made:
  for the guidance of wise men
  and the obedience of fools.

twizzel

  • Joined Apr 2012
Re: calf not sucking
« Reply #35 on: March 14, 2015, 10:42:03 am »
Our freshly calved cows tend to go out in the yard for the day to eat, leave the calf in the pen then by 5pm it should be hungry enough to get up and suck. If it doesn't you know you've got a problem and you need to put the calf on the cow somehow. So I'd be inclined to do 3 to an extent- separate cow and calf for the day and see what calf does when cow comes back in for the night. By tubing it 3 times a day it's not going to have any inclination to want to suck off the cow- considering we have a calf on the bottle at the moment and she gets 2 litres twice a day. Also hand reared calves seem to go better on twice daily feeding rather than little and often.

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: calf not sucking
« Reply #36 on: March 14, 2015, 11:32:16 am »
BH has reared many many calves over the years - he used to buy them in at a month old - and he likes them to still be on 3 feeds a day up until 6 weeks.  Splitting the volume they need into only two feeds could overfill the first stomach, maybe? 

I now buy in calves to rear on the Jerseys, and when the Jersey has just calved I will get very young - 2 to 7 day old - ones.  I wouldn't restrict one this young to only two feeds a day ordinarily, preferring three smaller feeds, but they can manage on two feeds a day from about 5 days old if it's necessary.  (When they're suckling the Jersey at first, I pull them off before their sides get full and taut, so I know they haven't overdone it.)

I think farmvet was indicating you shouldn't be needing to tube after the first 24 hours, so maybe switch to the bottle today?  And if he's not hungry / won't suck, walk away and try again a few hours later?  Now he's had a good start and plenty of colostrum, you can start to let him get to the point where his sides are hollow and he'll call for a feed.

If you can establish that he gets hungry and will suck, then he should start to feed off mum, even if you have to restrain her the first few times.

It's very hard to get a calf - or lamb - onto a mother's teat if it won't suck your fingers... ;)
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

shygirl

  • Joined May 2013
Re: calf not sucking
« Reply #37 on: March 14, 2015, 05:05:34 pm »
ref tail - we pulled it to the side (twist was a wrong description - sorry) as you would if you also holding their head at same time with the other hand, on the same side of the beast. not to inflict pain but to gain control enough to let the calf suck. you could also loop a rope around a rear leg, threw the rope over the back and hold it from there, so you had control of where the kicks were being aimed at. once the cow gets used to the calf sucking then all should be fine. look for those shiny teats and remember they may not suckle all teats until they are older.

I wondered if the tail pulling was similar to twitching a ponies nose?

pointer

  • Joined Feb 2015
  • Hebrides
Re: calf not sucking
« Reply #38 on: March 14, 2015, 08:47:23 pm »
He's suckled! ;D

landroverroy

  • Joined Oct 2010
Re: calf not sucking
« Reply #39 on: March 14, 2015, 09:43:40 pm »
Never doubted that he would. :excited:
Rules are made:
  for the guidance of wise men
  and the obedience of fools.

pointer

  • Joined Feb 2015
  • Hebrides
Re: calf not sucking
« Reply #40 on: March 14, 2015, 10:28:41 pm »
I'm not sure he'd ever have figured it out on his own. We secured Mum between two hurdles, which didn't please her at all. Forced calf's head through the bars to the udder, squirted milk into his mouth, but he was still putting all his energy into trying to squirm away from us. Even the first couple of times we got his mouth around the teat and milked in, he hadn't a clue what he was supposed to do. Eventually got him to start doing what he was supposed to, he then managed to get the other teat on the same side, then the wee extra teat that she has at the back (I didn't realise any milk came from that), all by himself. By the end he was going great guns, complete with tail wagging and vigourously butting into the udde.. After he'd finished RHS of udder we let Mum go and put him back in the pen with her - I think we'll keep them penned till Monday. He then rested rather than going to the remaining quarters, but hopefully that's him away now.
Very thankful for everyone who shared there experience and expertise on here.

trish.farm

  • Joined Feb 2014
  • hampshire
Re: calf not sucking
« Reply #41 on: March 14, 2015, 11:03:48 pm »
yey!!!!!   :excited: So pleased!!!  I know how worried and stressed out you must have been!!!  I am sure he will be fine now.  Whoop Whoop!!

Sbom

  • Joined Jul 2012
  • Staffordshire
Re: calf not sucking
« Reply #42 on: March 14, 2015, 11:06:36 pm »
Brilliant  :excited:

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: calf not sucking
« Reply #43 on: March 14, 2015, 11:45:24 pm »
Great news  :D   Well done  :thumbsup:
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

Rosemary

  • Joined Oct 2007
  • Barry, Angus, Scotland
    • The Accidental Smallholder
Re: calf not sucking
« Reply #44 on: March 15, 2015, 08:25:19 am »
Brilliant  :thumbsup:

 

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