[Rosemary]

If I crossed my horned Shetlands to say a polled Aberdeen Angus or polled Hereford, would the calves be horned or polled or a mix?

[fsmnutter]

Aberdeen angus dairy calves come out polled in my experience, so I would say polled

[SallyintNorth]

Our Angus x calves are mostly polled, even if the mother is a horned type.  (Can't actually think of any calves that have been horned, but am not 100% certain there haven't been any.)

Whether it's different if the bull is a naturally polled individual in a breed which has both horned and polled bulls (eg., North Devon), I don't yet know - although in our very small sample size, the calves from a polled Red Devon bull on horned Jerseys have both come out polled.  More data in a couple of months!   

We have a number of Hereford x dairy cattle who were horned at birth, which possibly may mean you're more likely to get horned calves with a Hereford bull?

[Rosemary]

Just thinking if "one year" I wanted to cross my Shetlands to a commercial bull to see what the calves were like; I'd be selling them as weaned calves, but folk won't want horned calves so I either need to be sure I'll have polled calves (preferably) or arrange to have them dehorned (an additional cost and stress for the calves (and me) that I'd rather avoid).

[SallyintNorth]

I'd think Angus would be a good cross and should be polled.

I'd also think Shorthorn, especially Whitebred Shorthorn, would be a wonderful cross - but much more likely to be horned.  We're still shopping for the next generation of hardy girls for our moorland - we can outwinter 8 on there.  We love Blue Greys (Whitebred Shorthorn on Galloway) but they've become very expensive - not surprisingly, they're lovely, docile, good mothers, good milkers, extremely hardy, light footprint, forage well, long-lived, good calves to an Angus, and hence suit this sort of ground in environmental schemes.  The only downside is they don't breed young very well; you really have to plan to have a first calf at three years old.  We just bought a Luing cross to try, and have a couple of home-bred Red Devon crosses coming through.

Rambling a bit, but with a purpose - I was meaning to show that you might find a market for a Whitebred Shorthorn cross specifically.  People like us would only want heifers, but other farms buy BG bullocks to grow on.  Worth a thought, perhaps.  (And the Whitebred Shorthorn is Cat 2 - endangered - so the more fans and uses it can find, the better )

Modified to add, I assume the WHS is horned, although all the pics you ever see are polled.

[Rosemary]

There was a Whitebred Shorthorn on the RBST stand at last year's Highland show. He was immense but SO good natured - bearing in mind there were hunners of kids patting him through the bars of his pen.

I could check with the breed society about the poll / horn thing. Plenty of Angus round about here though 

[SallyintNorth]

All our Blue Greys are 'quiet' (aka tame), and I'm pretty sure they didn't get that from their Galloway mums!   

All adult bulls of the main breeds are pretty enormous, I think.  But they don't get that way overnight.  It's birth weight that's more important when selecting for a paternal sire for a smaller cow, I always think.

Shetlands are similar size to Galloways, aren't they?  Should take a WSH no bother, I'd have thought.   I do mull over trying one on the Jerseys, but BH likes the Red Devon cross so much, we keep doing that.  One time I was struggling to get Hillie in calf, I'd arranged with our neighbour to take Hillie to the neighbour's WSH bull - but of course she did hold that time, so no need for the 'real thing'     (We hadn't a bull of our own at the time, or she'd have gone to our own Angus.)

[landroverroy]

If I crossed my horned Shetlands to say a polled Aberdeen Angus or polled Hereford, would the calves be horned or polled or a mix?

Crossed with a pure bred Angus you will always get a polled calf.
With a Hereford you won't always, as the Hereford bull may have a horned parent. The bull could therefore appear polled but carry a horned gene.

[mark@farmhouse]

I crossed some of my highlanders to the angus and got polled calves I would say a win win cross as bullocks will grow on well plus heifers will be in demand you also get the angus premium if the sire is registered AA

[SallyintNorth]

As far as I am aware, the Morrisons' premium is payable on a named / registered pedigree sire of any native breed, but is higher for the Beef Shorthorn.  At the moment it is 10ppk for any breed but Beef Shorthorn, and 30ppk for Beef Shorthorn.

Edited to add that offspring of a registered Whitebred Shorthorn bull also qualify for the 30ppk premium.

[sokel]

When we collected our 4 Angus x jersey calves they had 16 available and they where all polled.
After reading this thread last night I phoned her and she says they have never had a horned one born  from the Angus cross jersey

[oor wullie]

If I remember back to when I did a few part time courses at the college I think that the polled gene is dominant so a naturally polled beast crossed with a horned one will always result in polled offspring.

I am not sure how that works if your polled parent beast is actually a cross itself and therefore carried both genes (even though the polled one is dominant so the beast is polled).

Aberdeen Angus are naturally polled so I think you can be confident that any offspring will be polled.

[Rosemary]

Thanks, all. IF I do decide to have a year crossbreeding, I willmake sure the sire is a polled breed.

[SallyintNorth]

Thanks, all. IF I do decide to have a year crossbreeding, I willmake sure the sire is a polled breed.

Don't blame you, de-horning is unpleasant however it's done. 

I shall have to continue to make enquiries as to whether the WSH is horned or not (I suspect it is, sadly; the clue being in the name!  )

[Ladygrey]

All of the angus calves born here are polled, interestingly maybe a third of the british blue calves are also polled

Simmental, Limmi and Charolais cross calves are always horned