Author Topic: Beginners Bees! (Read 4987 times)

SophieLeeds · « **on:** January 05, 2015, 03:44:23 pm »

Hi all

Been on the forum for a while but bought my OH a hive, suit and all other associated bits and bobs for Christmas- I'm feeling very apprehensive!

I am correct in assuming we need to get bees towards the end of spring? Also what type should we be looking to buy? I have a book that talks about nuclei, swarms etc, but I'm a little lost as to what is the best option for novices who would of course like to see a little honey!

Bionic · « **Reply #1 on:** January 05, 2015, 04:15:30 pm »

Sophie,
I really wouldn't get bees until you have some experience. Most bee keeping clubs have courses this time of year and getting on one of those would definitely be worth while. As hives are closed up this time of year you won't get any hands on experience until the spring but there is still a lot to learn first anyway.
Good luck with it.

Sudanpan · « **Reply #2 on:** January 05, 2015, 05:10:45 pm »

I would second the recommendation to get in touch with your local beekeeping group. Lots of help and the opportunity (usually) to do some observation of more experienced beekeepers manipulating and handling the hives and colonies. Doing a course is also very handy, though practical sessions are the most helpful and, as already mentioned, hives are all shut up and quiet right now waiting for the warmer spring days,

Your association will also, most likely, have a few members who will be producing nucleii for sale so being a member will give you an inside track.

Beware - beekeeping is addictive

SophieLeeds · « **Reply #3 on:** January 05, 2015, 05:34:00 pm »

We have a couple of groups of friends who are experienced beekeepers and members of groups and who's help we have enlisted!

I bought the hive from a club.

I was asking more because I wanted peoples opinions- and to check we don't end up with any duff leftovers!

Sudanpan · « **Reply #4 on:** January 05, 2015, 06:15:37 pm »

The best bees, IMO, are local ones to your area. By definition they should then be more suited to the local environment and therefore have a higher survival/success rate. These colonies would probably come from member's of your local groups.
I am by no means experienced, but as I understood the workings in our area, if you order a nucleus now you will either be getting:
a nucleus that will have been over-wintered by the seller and is then pretty much ready to get growing as soon as the season starts and you may be able to think of getting honey from your bees this summer.
or a nuc that is made up from the first mated queens of 2015 - and this won't be until end May or so which means that there is a much lower likelihood of getting the colony to such a size that you will be able to take any honey from them this year.

The main caveat to this is the bees will do their own thing no matter what..!

I got a nuc in Jun 2012 and one in Sept 2012 so no honey in 2012, still no honey in 2013 due to various things, and then still no honey 2014 because of missed swarms and some major beekeeper bungling....!
However, I haveeverything crossed

that 2015 might see us get a couple of jars....!

sss · « **Reply #5 on:** January 05, 2015, 08:58:56 pm »

Personally I would avoid buying bees. Commercially sold nucs or colonies are in my opinion quite expensive.

I would either,

Wait for a swarm, that does have a gamble of unknown disease, heritage and temperament. But if you make a beginners foobar the cost loss is less.

Or buy a very cheap nuc from within the association. My old one used to do cheap nucs to newcomers to help them get started. I have also done the same, I do not know what my new association does yet.

This is my opinion I know many disagree, but nucs in the last few years were really expensive.

Bionic · « **Reply #6 on:** January 05, 2015, 10:14:39 pm »

Sss, last year nuc's were £250 and we heard of people paying even more. Our club also does cheap nuc's for beginners though so I think a club is definitely the way to go.

SophieLeeds · « **Reply #7 on:** January 06, 2015, 08:28:23 am »

Had a quick scout online and they all look to be between £200-£250

so will have to get friendly with our local club!

cloddopper · « **Reply #8 on:** January 07, 2015, 12:10:24 am »

HaHa the age old problem .
An old trick that works if there are hived or feral honey bees in the local area that's six miles across or slighty bigger from your apiary at the centre .

Is on the first of April , assemble & locate safely an empty brood hive with one super of frames as well . Coat all the the frames with a mixture of locally produced honey and water , use a new trigger pack to spray it on. Now wait till mid June to see if the soon to swarm bees home in on the honey scents and that you get a prime swarm take up residence.

There are also bait hive attractants that mimic various hive pheromones that encourage inquisitive foraging /scout bees as well . These are sometimes found in the better bee supply shops online.
Whilst not 100 % guaranteed I found both methods worked reasonably well ..
If swarm does take up residence you'll need to treat it for Varroa fairly quickly . before it become well established 7 starts affecting the hive.

Whilst your waiting for the invaders

you can also be learning with a competent keeper .. Often if they are like me & you both got on well they'd will give you a couple of frames of brood two empty drawn frames & let you provide the other undrawn frames to fill the neuc box , plus a couple of cups of their bees box to get you started in exchange for some drawn frames or new un drawn frames that suited their hive system .

The reason for the specific start date of the first of April is that generally for the UK , the first swarms usually issue from the hives as prime swarms with around 45 thousand bees in them. They will be all ready to start a new colony with every resource they require for the task, including a new queen ... between 9 April to the mid June depending on the weather.
After that the swarm get's smaller & smaller till , " In July... it ain't worth a fly "

SophieLeeds · « **Reply #9 on:** January 07, 2015, 09:18:40 am »

Quote from: cloddopper on January 07, 2015, 12:10:24 am

HaHa the age old problem .
An old trick that works if there are hived or feral honey bees in the local area that's six miles across or slighty bigger from your apiary at the centre .

Is on the first of April , assemble & locate safely an empty brood hive with one super of frames as well . Coat all the the frames with a mixture of locally produced honey and water , use a new trigger pack to spray it on. Now wait till mid June to see if the soon to swarm bees home in on the honey scents and that you get a prime swarm take up residence.

There are also bait hive attractants that mimic various hive pheromones that encourage inquisitive foraging /scout bees as well . These are sometimes found in the better bee supply shops online.
Whilst not 100 % guaranteed I found both methods worked reasonably well ..
If swarm does take up residence you'll need to treat it for Varroa fairly quickly . before it become well established 7 starts affecting the hive.

Whilst your waiting for the invaders you can also be learning with a competent keeper .. Often if they are like me & you both got on well they'd will give you a couple of frames of brood two empty drawn frames & let you provide the other undrawn frames to fill the neuc box , plus a couple of cups of their bees box to get you started in exchange for some drawn frames or new un drawn frames that suited their hive system .

The reason for the specific start date of the first of April is that generally for the UK , the first swarms usually issue from the hives as prime swarms with around 45 thousand bees in them. They will be all ready to start a new colony with every resource they require for the task, including a new queen ... between 9 April to the mid June depending on the weather.
After that the swarm get's smaller & smaller till , " In July... it ain't worth a fly "

So much information - thanks Cloddopper! Not sure about there being any hives within 6 miles (probably more like 10/15), and want to avoid any wild ones if possible at first so we don't get swamped with disease whilst we're still learning, so may have to buy the bees!

Lots to learn

cloddopper · « **Reply #10 on:** January 13, 2015, 07:22:01 pm »

There are two way of looking at feral swarms of feral bees.
One is that they are a pest and are nasty so will defend the nest from intruders , you included .

The other is that they are naturalized to the locality and being untreated for any disease or varroa might be a better stronger strain .

Even domesticated hives with specialized imported or bred queens can /will have disease and varroa unless they come from a specialist breeder such a Thornes and are certified free of them.

A feral swarm that produces reasonable honey can be re queened with a more prolific queen of a generally acceptable temperament & better honey production ......you just use the bees present till the transfer /turnover of bees is fully complete so as to not lose the production in the mean time .

Caroline1 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 27, 2015, 09:09:06 pm »

I started beekeeping 4 years ago and as all the courses were fully booked, decided to go on my own, read up loads and then bought a nuc from a local beekeeper I found online in May. Everything I learnt was from getting hands on which was the best experience.

Knowing what I know now, for a first time, I would suggest a nuc from someone that knows the temperament of the bees. Some of the swarms we have collected have been a bit of a gamble and one turned out to be very aggressive which is the last thing you want as a beginner.

Has been one of the best hobbies I have taken up but was made better by having nice relaxed bees to start with, I think I even got about 10 jars of honey from that first year.

arwenevenstar · « **Reply #12 on:** February 08, 2015, 04:40:21 pm »

Ha ha ha!
One thing you may have figured is that there is SO much information out there and SO much of it is individual to the beekeeper.

You won't get the same answer from any two beekeepers in our experience.

However, I do agree that a course and getting to know your local BBKA branch is very important, at the very least you can get insurance through them that will help you if you ever find that you suffer a loss and all your kit needs to be destroyed.

Being a member of a branch means that you will get to know people and there are normally many helpful people who will be happy to mentor and 'watch over' you in your first year. Our bee friends helped us gather a swarm, helped our neighbours by taking a swarm that landed in their tree, helped us with honey extraction in our first year. Vital help imo.

We bought a nuc in initially but, oddly it swarmed within around a month. I was very sceptical that it could have done that as I had presumed that the queen was relatively young, however, it happened, so that threw all my understanding thus far. We then raised a new queen from that hive and it is now thriving (currently flying today)

Our second hive was a swarm we were given, they were fab, gave us a great crop of honey this year, but I think, sadly, we have lost them over winter as there appears to be lack of life and movement :-(

We will wait for another swarm I think as I feel a little more comfortable as a beekeeper in year two and our experience with our nuc has put me off buying unless I have to.

There is a PLETHORA of information out there, but do a course, get a mentor and your bees and learn by doing what works for your bees and your understanding.

Enjoy it and have fun!

cloddopper · « **Reply #13 on:** February 09, 2015, 10:17:45 pm »

Arwen ,why not make a four frame neuc up from the existing hive at the beginning of April , it should be big enough to stand the losses by then and take it the obligatory 3 miles away for a week then reintroduce it into a new hive in your apiary.

You'll be able to get the first queen developed by the neuc if you destroy all others for a week

Both hive should go like rockets if the weather is good .