[Womble]

OK, so I've made up a steel frame for a hay rack, and so far so good. However, I'm using 3" 10G weldmesh to use to hold the hay, and I can't find a way to stick it to the frame!



I'll admit my welding skills aren't up to much, but should I be able to do this with a stick welder?  No matter what setting I use, the mesh just burns through before forming a weld. It is galvanized, in case that makes any difference (yes, I was using extraction).

If it's not stick-weldable, is there something else like brazing I can try, and if so, how?

[devonlady]

A bit of baler twine same as everyone uses

[Womble]

I know, Devonlady. I have a feeling it's going to be cable ties, but I'd love to know how I SHOULD have done it! 

[SallyintNorth]

Sorry, Womble, I've always used cable ties or baler twine too 

[UPoneacre]

Actually you can do it with an MMA 'stick' welder but you need to change your technique to accomodate the different mass of the frame compared to the mesh so that the whole job heats up evenly. Your problem is that while you're heating up the bigger bits to welding temperature you're burning thorugh the smaller section mesh.

You do need to grind off any galvanising in the immediate weld site as fumes from melted galvanising are a serious health hazard, if you can weld outside in fresh air so much the better.

To successfully heat up the whole job evenly you need to preheat the heavier sections firstwith something like a propane torch (I've used a barbecue for the purpose before now), when reasonably hot (not at welding temperature) just do short tack welds say 1/2" to an inch long to attach the mesh to the frame. That should solve your problem.

[YoungRasher]

you could use tek screws/self drilling bolts and washers to clamp it.

[Rosemary]

Cable ties.

[devonlady]

Baler twine!

[chrismahon]

It's done with a MIG welder Womble with the metal deposited on the frame only until the same height as the wire mesh then just 'flicked' over. You can do the same with a stick welder, but you need to remove the slag from the weld after the first pass around. Takes quite a bit of time to do, but I made some mesh partitions using that technique many years ago. The mesh needs to overlap the frame by about an inch


Problem with any plastic ties or twine is it degrades over time and falls apart.


You can braze on a stick welder by using a carbon arc torch. I have one but have trouble sourcing the rods. There are two types of carbon rod. Solid ones are used singularly for cutting and soft core ones are used for brazing -the soft core erodes first and creates a 'flame' effect with the arc which forms between two rods.

[Deere]

If your still not having any luck with the welding technique, you could try using Young rashers idea but instead of big washers use strips of inch wide steel with holes drilled in will keep it tighter 

[ballingall]

I have no idea how it can be done, but it can be done. Our van partition (now 25/26 years old) is made out of a weldmesh panel, welded to a frame which was welded together out of metal 1950's style hospital bunk beds. My brother made it, but no idea how!   

Does that mean our van partition is actually 60 years old....?

Beth

[cloddopper]

I know, Devonlady. I have a feeling it's going to be cable ties, but I'd love to know how I SHOULD have done it! 

I purchased a simple hand held non commercial use spot welder from Machine Mart 25 years ago for less than £ 150 ( I did say 25 years ago !  )
 
I've just checked MM & found ...Clarke CSW13T Spot Welder (with timer) it's nearly £500 these days    ( Still very good value if you have the work for them )

I made well over 1,000 small cages and the same number of drinker attaching plates and  full four foot diameter lid reinforcing strips with bit each set up needing 53 welds . Plus zillions of other thin steel /thin galv /stainless steel , copper or brass  things .
 
You never know how useful one is on a small holding/small farm till you're without one after having had one for 20 odd years ( I sold up when I became disabled for the second time).

 Perhaps try and see if you can hire a hand held spot welder .

From the likes of HSS  or any decent small plant/equipment  hire company.
Some spot welders will spot weld  up to 6.4  mm ( 1/4 inch ) wires on to 4 mm metal without any difficulty .

 The big water cooled continuous use commercial ones can spot weld 10 or more mm of steel etc.

Before you do hire one make sure you have all manner of thin steel things ready such as dog guard for the car /truck , dog crates , different mesh garden /farm sieves /riddles ,  brackets & boxes etc . for a single days spot welding session .
 
This way you can work 24 hrs solid if needs be  . That way you get the best value for your money.

 Hiring a small tig or mig machine with a reasonable gas bottle is also an option but only if you know how to tig /mig  weld for it can be expensive , even with the no gas fillers /wires set ups. .
 
 Failing that drill the angle irons and fit large " penny washers on the inside of the angle iron with small fully threaded bolts that are using , " nyloc "  nuts.   Fitted  so that the penny washer traps the mesh under the washer & between the internal edge of the angle iron so it won't come free . Nor will the Nyloc nut come free & be eaten by the animals unlike normal nuts 7 spring washer if they are slightly disturbed ..  This usually entails you putting a bolt through at the inside edge of two  opposite wires of a square so it can't slip /slide free . Put one in each corner as well to trap the corner securely .  You can always cut a penny washer down to size with a hacksaw  to get a good corner or fit along a length .

You could also use extra long big headed pip rivets if you can get hold of or hire a decent long armed tongs type riveter. Big rivets in 6 mm diameter or so shanks at 15 to 20 mm long with 18 mm or so cheese / pan or flat head are not too expensive on eBay
 As said use basic " Tec screws " + washer and metal strips ,  either insert them in pre drilled pilot holes using suitable power tools or a specialist slow speed geared down torque settable Tec screw gun in un drilled metal over 3 mm or so if using self tapping / screw thread cutting high tensile Tec screws ..
 
The Tec screws can be expensive , if you can only buy them by the box of 200 or so but you soon find all manner & excuses to use them , especially the ones with a rubber sealing gasket under the head washer .

[Womble]

Thanks for the good advice everyone, and for your very detailed reply Cloddopper!
 
In the end the sheep needed the hay rack, so I just lashed it together with cable ties (sorry!  ).  That should last until the spring, and then I'll probably re-do it using the penny washers and pop rivets as suggested above.
 
I also had to weld some thin steel hinges onto some box section, so used Uponeacre's method of pre-heating with a blowtorch, which worked pretty well.
 
A MIG welder is on my Christmas list, but only once I've learned how to stick weld properly!
 
Cheers!

[Penninehillbilly]

sounds an interesting project - any photos? and as most of us would use baleband or cableties don't be ashamed to show them 

[Womble]

Hi PHB, As it happens, the hay rack was in the background of a photo I took yesterday, so with the aid of a bit of zooming and cropping, here it is with any luck!: