[lord flynn]

hi
I know they can have the Marriages pellets and I've ordered some but they won't be here until mon/tues. I have some of the flubenvet premix and just wanted to check they could have this mixed in the breeder pellets with some oil? I'm a little suspicious of the head movements of one of the ducks and having had tapeworm here before I want to treat asap.

[HesterF]

Yes, you can, same rate as chickens. Only question is off topic - why you've got them on breeders? Mine are on growers or layers at this time of year (depending on whether they're laying or not).

[lord flynn]

thanks.
they were on growers but don't only have young ducks-I ran out of growers and though I'd put them on breeders rather than layers then breeders (they aren't laying-I though the older ones might start but I think the move triggered a major moult which they are just getting over). My chickens will go on breeders too as soon as they've all been wormed with the marriages layers. Its possibly a bit early given I won't start hatching until March but I think its a better diet for them in the winter than layers IMHO.

[HesterF]

I think you can keep them on growers. When I bought my geese (and they're top duck breeders too), I asked about diet and they have breeders through the breeding season and then back onto growers/finishers for the rest of the year.

[waterbuffalofarmer]

I worm my chickens once a week by putting myrrh in their water, it cleans them out and keeps them healthy. You can also put it in your sheeps water, however be careful not to overdose. I have a metal, clean, dogs bowl I bought from a petshop for my chickens I give them about a few drops in their water and they drink it, it is a natural wormer.

[HesterF]

Myrrh? As in the three wise men? Very seasonal! But it's not a liquid so what's it mixed with? Do you have worm counts done by the vet to be sure it's working?

[waterbuffalofarmer]

I use the liquid form you can buy in it big bottles from the herbal apothecary, be careful how much you use though as it is rather a strong liquid, its a fabulous vermifuge though. I don't bother with worm counts, I rarely give sheep it, I usually worm them conventionally, however none of the chickens have come down with worms in all the time I've kept them.

[lord flynn]

how do you know they don't have worms? just because you aren't looking for them, doesnt mean they arent there.

[waterbuffalofarmer]

Well to an extent a very animal has some worms always present, they always seem healthy to me and also I keep them free range, they have clean bedding and a balanced diet, so in essence they're generally worm free.

[Womble]

Surely that just means that they're keeping their own individual worm burdens down to a level where it causes them no problem?  They could still be carrying worms, so unless you do an egg count you've not really any way of knowing surely?
 
Of course to put the lie to that, we just had an egg count done for our hens and it came back clear, despite none of them having been wormed for a couple of years now.

[lord flynn]

 
Of course to put the lie to that, we just had an egg count done for our hens and it came back clear, despite none of them having been wormed for a couple of years now.

it doesnt mean they have no worms, just that any present and below the limits of detection of the test-which is a good thing. If you worm animals regularly for a while then the worm burdens overall will decrease barring events like buying in new stock etc.

and yes animals carry low levels of worms. but (as a parasitologist) I do despair when I get people using non-wormers as worm control and then declare their animals worm free when they have no evidence of it because then others take it as gospel and do the same. When you dont worm, they are alright until they arent alright..

[Womble]

it doesnt mean they have no worms, just that any present and below the limits of detection of the test-which is a good thing.

Indeed.  The low / non-count did surprise me though - should it have?

[waterbuffalofarmer]

I have read about myrrh and it does kill a lot of the worms in their system, it is natures vermifuge a bit like chicory. In all the time I've kept hens, a lot of years, I have given then myrrh and sometimes wormwood and never had a worm problem, is that coincidence or the fact that natural workers work?

[lord flynn]

I have read about myrrh and it does kill a lot of the worms in their system, it is natures vermifuge a bit like chicory. In all the time I've kept hens, a lot of years, I have given then myrrh and sometimes wormwood and never had a worm problem, is that coincidence or the fact that natural workers work?

might be either but you've proof of neither

[lord flynn]

it doesnt mean they have no worms, just that any present and below the limits of detection of the test-which is a good thing.

Indeed.  The low / non-count did surprise me though - should it have?

depends on lots of factors really-FEWC aren't infallible, there are reasons for both false negatives and false positives. If anyone's birds free range and come into contact with wild birds its worth worming regardless. Most species also come into an age whereby they will become more resistant to intestinal worms and then become susceptible again when they get older. Parasite burden is one reason why most species don't live as long in the wild as they do domesticated. My horses have nil worm counts (and are 3, 5 and 21 years old so young and old) but I still worm in order to keep down those species not detectable by WEC (tapes and encysted redworms for example).

The other problem with natural remedies (and its not that I think they absolutely cannot work-many drugs come have natural origins afterall) is that there's no quality control on these products, you've no idea of the dosage of the active ingredient you are giving nor what other impurities you might be dosing them with. Why waste your money and risk the animal's health? just buy the proper stuff (and there's little recorded resistance in poultry as yet) and get the job done.