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Author Topic: How many sheep per acre?  (Read 35533 times)

Coximus

  • Joined Aug 2014
How many sheep per acre?
« on: October 27, 2014, 06:42:46 pm »
Hey,

Out of curriosity, I want to keep sheep on about 8 acres, year round, and lamb them - are my toughts right that I could comfortably support about 40 Ewes.

The land is good grassland, southfacing and sheltered from the wind, has previously given good silage to previous tenant.

The breeds im thinking of are a mix of Lleyn and possibly hebrideans or Ryelands.

Marches Farmer

  • Joined Dec 2012
  • Herefordshire
Re: How many sheep per acre?
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2014, 08:11:07 pm »
Classic equation is 5 to the acre.  In practice this depends on whether you want to raise all the lambs, make your own hay, how early the grass stops growing in Winter, how early it starts again the following Spring, what kind of Winter, Spring, Summer and Autumn weather we get, whether you get a fast metabolism breed of sheep, whether the ley is ancient meadow or a one, two or five year ley, what type of soil you have, what the drainage is like ....

Coximus

  • Joined Aug 2014
Re: How many sheep per acre?
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2014, 08:34:23 pm »
Cheers - I suppose a better way of thinking my quesiton now Im home is;

Basic rule 5 to the acre - what are peoples experiences - IE breeds etc, as Obviously some breeds will need more than others.

Ideally what im trying to work out is a breeding strategy - Hoping to be able to cover at least feeding costs so obviously larger number per acre is good, but not if its at the expense of the pasture.,

Rosemary

  • Joined Oct 2007
  • Barry, Angus, Scotland
    • The Accidental Smallholder
Re: How many sheep per acre?
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2014, 08:49:11 pm »
Sheep aren't as hard on pasture as say cattle or horses - little feet, see  :)

I assume that your eight acres is divided into paddocks because you will need to rest paddocks and rotate the sheep round to reduce the worm burden and allow the grass to recover.

We keep Coloured Ryelands; one of the reason we like them ( and this would apply to any similar breed) is that the lambs finish fat in the same year they are born - so our tup lambs have recently gone to slaughter with and average dw of 20.5kg. We lamb first two weeks in April.

The primitive breeds tend not to finish until they are a year or more old so you have to factor that in to your stocking and management arrangements too.

bigchicken

  • Joined Nov 2008
  • Fife Scotland
Re: How many sheep per acre?
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2014, 09:01:09 pm »
I think 40 ewes with there lambs would be a lot for eight acres on an all year round graze and if it's Llyen that could be over 120 sheep grazing eight acres sound like to much to me. I had a field of about the same size and have lambed 30+ Shetland ewes on it and I thought they did ok but there was a dirth of grass in the winter which ment more bought in food for them. I have halved that number and there is lots of grass and the sheep look well on it with less winter feeding.
Shetland sheep, Castlemilk Moorits sheep, Hebridean sheep, Scots Grey Bantams, Scots Dumpy Bantams. Shetland Ducks.

Porterlauren

  • Joined Apr 2014
Re: How many sheep per acre?
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2014, 09:04:09 pm »
Personally I would say 40 sheep, year round, on eight acres, would be a pain.

If you get a bad winter, poaching etc you could quickly run out of grass.

And if you lamb out 40 ewes, get 150%, you then have 100 ewes and lambs to rotate on 8 acres until the fat lambs are gone.

I currently have one mob of 43 ewes on a farm (rented grazing) which is 18 acres of pp, not the best grazing, not the worst. They have just about had enough grass for them and a cut of haylage. The way it's looking now, if I want to lamb them there in April, and run them on it until lambs are weaned, then they will need to go elsewhere for a couple of months this winter.

Coximus

  • Joined Aug 2014
Re: How many sheep per acre?
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2014, 11:14:33 pm »
Thanks, very helpful feedback.

Personally Im veering towards a lighter breed in the welshmountain type or Hebrideans, Put to either a Ryeland or Suffolk as I have seen both in the flesh recently and both combine well.

I am happy providing straw feed for 7-9 months of the year as backstop feed to buffer any grass shortfall - I can get it for £1.30 a bale locally (wheat).

The land is pretty good grassland and has supported silage cutting yearly until last year, its south facing sheltered aspect means the grass gets going around march and stops back end Oct so is a good field in that respect, higher up the hill its stopped by sept.

From peoples experience with larger breeds, Im extrapolating I should be able to support 25-30 small sheep then without too many problems, with fall-back straw always available for a nibble in covered feeders.

I do have the option of renting another 4 acres next door for 4 months after silage has been cut, so I probabbly will for the sake of breathing room while lambs are around.
My aim would be to be rid of all lambs by end of Oct each year, sold fat or as stores.

What breeds have you guys used for this then? Keen to avoid anything that wreaks the ground or harms the sheep.

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • ScotHebs
Re: How many sheep per acre?
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2014, 12:10:19 am »

Pure Hebrideans will not be ready for slaughter before the end of the year.  They need to grow on until the following July or August, so to 15 or 16 months.  Hebs are beautiful sheep, but it doesn't sound as if they would fit in with your high return requirements.  Were you to use a large meat type sire on them though (not first year) the lambs could finish by the end of the year, so you'd have the best of both worlds - quick finishing but ewes which have lower demands on pasture.
I think you are pushing it with your estimated stocking density.  We've tried packing them in like that, but the health of both the sheep and the pasture suffered, so lambs were smaller than they should have been.  A lower stocking density brings rewards in better health and better killing weights.  Obviously you need to get max returns from your rented ground, but to my mind quality is better than quantity.
I've not used straw as a winter feed, so I'm not sure if it would provide enough nutrients, and could be hard on their teeth.  We cut our own hay for their winter feed, with a little Champion Tup coarse mix leading up to lambing.
"Let's not talk about what we can do, but do what we can"

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Backinwellies

  • Global Moderator
  • Joined Sep 2012
  • Llandeilo Carmarthenshire
    • Nantygroes
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Re: How many sheep per acre?
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2014, 07:38:42 am »
Wheat straw is bedding... Very little feed value. During winter months ewes requirements are increasing assuming you are going to lamb early enough for selling lambs in autumn so feed is important... They are fussy eaters and need good hay,.
 Are you indoor lambing?.......

Have you considered breed in terms of prolificasy? Keep less ewes but keep a breed that has multiple births ,... Less animals to over winter. ... So llen, llanwenog, mule put to say Suffolk?  Your primitive will be lighter and should eat less but only one lamb per ewe. ..... and probably less easy to sell at market?
Linda

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undergruntled

  • Joined Feb 2014
Re: How many sheep per acre?
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2014, 07:43:18 am »
We have just moved into a place with three and a half acres.  We have three ewe lambs, two dorper crosses and a leicester longwool.  We hope to get two more this winter, but that will be it, five sheep to three and a half acres.  They will be sharing with my two ponies and it will be divided into several paddocks.  I expect the sheep will follow the horses round the field in rotation.  The horses will be stabled some of the time.
We will be buying in hay so no need to keep any spare for that purpose.
The paddock has just been topped as it was overgrown but the man that did the work says the field is very fertile - with lots of clover - so I am guessing we should be ok for the amount we want to put on there.  What do people think?

Big Light

  • Joined Aug 2011
    • Facebook
Re: How many sheep per acre?
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2014, 07:51:03 am »
We have hebrideans and take about 35 - 40 head (ewes, lambs and tups) through the winter on a similar acreage using a little hay and some champion tup mix on occasion ( leading up to lambing / deep snow lying / a little to keep them tame).

 We have some extra summer grazing wich allows the ground to recover / able to take a cut of forage. We lamb about 15 -18 ewes. We take the odd one at the end of their first year (about now ish) and get 8 -10 kgs of meat back most go through to the second summer / autumn and come back with 15-18kg of meat. We will sell some lambs / adult stock as registered breeding stock as well - this allows us to regulalte numbers for the back end.

If you altered fleecewifes plan slightly and used a terminal sire first at tupping time then swapped in a hebridean tup to cover you would get a crop of very marketable cross lambs but also have some replacement ewe lambs / pure hebs boys to eat yourself. You would then possibly be looking at 20 odd females maximum and try to keep them in good condition to maximise lambing percentages / prevent losses. You will then learn your market and can decide - are bigger single lambs more cost effective or are twin lambs more profitable and then if your after twins and the ewe is regularly producing single you can consider swapping that female out. - Not really sure about the feeding qualities of straw might fill a hungry  belly but you would probably have to supplement it

As for the above comment - "Primative ....- one lamb per ewe  :thinking: "- not sure where you are getting your facts - but they are frankly wrong - yes they may not be vastly prolific but will provide a mix of number as per any other sheep and in the better grass conditions rather than on more marginal land you would hope for a better lambing percentage - as for selling at a recent auction in the middle of this month folk we know were selling Hebridean x Beltex wether lamb approx  45 kgs  for £66.00 avg price for lambs at the sale was £64.10  a lamb - roughly similar weights - so again seem to hold their market  value!

Foobar

  • Joined Mar 2012
  • South Wales
Re: How many sheep per acre?
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2014, 11:15:17 am »
Maybe you need to do some LSU calculations based on the breed(s) you want to keep....:)  different breeds need different amounts of forage.  Tim Tyne's Sheep Book has a beginners guide to LSUs (Livestock units).

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • ScotHebs
Re: How many sheep per acre?
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2014, 02:07:25 pm »
I agree with Biglight that Hebrideans and some other primitives, produce more than a single lamb.  Where we are, we are high and have a long winter, but two thirds of our Heb ewes routinely produce twins.  On excellent feeding, a small number of triplets are born to the national flock each year.  Soay produce maybe 50% twins, and this year two Soay ewes we had sold to a friend, had triplets (they didn't here, so it must be down to feeding)   So my point is, if you economise on feed, your ewes will produce fewer and less healthy lambs.
Our pure Heb shearlings at 16 months, come back as 15 to 23 kgs of meat, crossbred lambs would weigh more, depending on the sire of course.
"Let's not talk about what we can do, but do what we can"

There is NO planet B - what are YOU doing to save our home?

Do something today that your future self will thank you for - plant a tree

 Love your soil - it's the lifeblood of your land.

Coximus

  • Joined Aug 2014
Re: How many sheep per acre?
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2014, 06:01:42 pm »
Thanks, thats very interesting to hear everyones experiences.

The plan is certainly to breed to a terminal sire, so most likely a suffolk, as I have a smaller shouldered and headed one on offer, but which throws good meaty lambs as its well endowed in the right areas.

From previous experience and what Ive seen first hand Hebrideans pure and crossed on straight grass without flushing tend to produce 150-170% lambs, more on better ground. I know of two locals to me who routinely get 190-210 from hebridean x lleyn ewes which are flushed on fodder beet, so I really see hebs as a way of achieving a good lambing without having to flush heavily.

I would be happy with 150-160% lambs, as my main aim is to pay the rent and put some meat in the freezer / perhaps a small profit for investing in good stock in future.

My plan based on this, roughly is to Keep either 35 Hebridean / welsh mountain ewes or 25 Lleyns.

most if not all to be crossed to a suffolk, with following on of a Heb/lleyn ram to perhaps get a few replacements, though as both are long lived breeds I only need to breed 3-5 a year by my calculations.

I can get fodder beets loaded into builders bags for £10 a bag, farmer (also landlord) selling them recons one bag will provide all food needs for 35 hebs (20 mules in his case) for a week if not more, but recons they would scour if put straight on. His suggestion is to start feeding small amounts from end of sept onwards upto 50% of ration, saving the grass on the ground to last through until march - This is how he runs his 900 Mules and it works well for him. With this in mind 5 Bags should see me though at 1/4 ration and up it when the weather gets crap.

My hope is that this will give Me plenty of good lambs and perhaps some nice cross ewes to experiment with, the LLord is interested in seeing how a thrifty breed like heb, x lleyn could do as a comercial ewe and may buy a few to experiment with, He seems to think they may be about = to normal mules but get away without flushing, and may need a couple extra weeks to finish a lamb.

All exited now and pretty set on small breed primitives x to meat sire.


Does anyone have any heb ewes they want to sell me?

Big Light

  • Joined Aug 2011
    • Facebook
Re: How many sheep per acre?
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2014, 08:21:02 pm »
Where are you ?
If you look at www.hebrideansheep.org.uk in the sale bit you will find a number of hebs for sale

 

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