[twizzel]

Again, not that any of my fello Smallholders produce is such(mediocre) but yes my neighbouring farmers do, as do danepack, Bernard Mathews and Halls and I do lament the loss of traditional farming with native breeds and butchers who hang and cut with skill and care.

Lament all you like but farming has been modernised thanks to supermarkets and processors driving down prices- doesn't mean farmers produce sub standard meat or grain, just that they are being pushed to produce a product at a price that is not sustainable. As you know my OH is a beef farmer, far from traditional with continental stock- because commercial buyers demand a certain carcass quality, price and traditional breeds cannot normally compete with continental.

I'll still continue to eat our mediocre inferior commercial lambs, they taste good to me and all that have eaten them; I may not be a connoisseur of meat but most of my friends and family do not describe themselves as this too, we just want good food at a reasonable price (note I do not buy meat from the supermarkets either, until recently beef and pork came from a local traditional family farm butchery) and this is something I can provide with our commercially bred lambs. It is obvious that you have a different market for your produce to  Porterlauren and I which is fine and if you can get a premium price per kg then bravo but not acceptable to look down on our products when you've not even tasted them yourself, and also look at where we are in the country- I am in one of the most economically deprived counties in the UK- you'd get laughed out of town charging those prices down here no matter how good your product is.

[MKay]

Its difficult to tell how someone means something when it is in writing.

I am glad you accept our products are different and that you choose mass production and are happy with the results, its a shame you cannot accept the same from me. I am sure I could find customers for my produce in your town, but alass- I have a waiting list...

[Porterlauren]

You are quite priceless.

I'd quite like to know how my 'mass produced', out door born, and raised pedigree saddleback, born, reared and killed within 2 square miles, which lived it's life running around a bramble and tree filled field, tastes quite so inferior to your pork, because I sell it for less.

As for the cross bred pigs and sheep, they may taste different than the traditional breed pigs and the wee native sheep, but when reared well, fed well (grass only in the case of the sheep) and killed, hung and butchered properly, I would argue that they taste no worse, it;s just a different meat. The upside is that they have been selectively bred for improved performance and so can be reared in a more cost effective manner, and hence cost less.

I live in the middle of nowhere, so i'm not sure you;d have much success. Lucky really, because perhaps your order book might dry up, if someone offered high quality produce at a lower price, in your local area  Just joking.

[MKay]

I'm sorry that you assume I am always refering to you Porter, however in that paragraph I happened to be speaking to the lady who told me she kept both a commercial suckler herd and flock.

We shall agree to disagree on the taste of commercial stock, the verdict is in though, the world's top chefs wouldn't be using the  native breeds if they did not taste better than their somewhat more economical cousins.
Forman and Field do not sell it either.

I do have such competition and it does indeed effect my business, it limits growth. Hence why I, like many others have a second business. My order book could probably handle a doubling of my output and I will be putting my money where my mouth is next year. Time will tell.

On the note of taste(again, I'm sorry) does your commercial really taste as good as your saddlebacks? Although the point is really mute as my "slagging off" as you called it was myopicaly directed at twizzles supermarket bought commercial pork that she receives no complaints about. Although you did suggest that the taste of commercial and traditional breed was the same.
Its like saying that carling and punk IPA taste the same

[MKay]

Ah twizzle, a final finale. You may note I only began "looking down" on your produce after you suggested I was extortionate and said there was no difference in taste between it and commercially reared pork that you buy.
You then brought in other comparisons, I appreciate that you now accept that I have a premium product for which I can charge such. I wish you had expressed this initially, the comments mentioned above were always going to be inflammatory if not mildly offensive. A rebuttal was in order.
If I was told someone was selling their Koby style beef for double what I sell mine for I would have been supportive and interested,not a twt. But that's just magnanimous, superior old me. Chow, I'm off for tea with a Lord...

[happyharry]

Pricing is a perennial problem for small holders. Faced with "how much ? I can buy it in Aldi for less than that" most smallholders back down and subsequently complain about not getting a proper return.

It's all about marketing. You produce a product that can be differentiated from the mass market. You highlight those differences. You target a market that will appreciate, and can afford, your product. You present it as a premium product - not some lumps of meat in a poly bag.

Those principles apply to virtually every product. Take 400 grams of chocolates, put them in a fancy box with a bit of ribbon and a well written insert extolling the virtues of your chocolates and you can sell them for a fiver or more. Put the same chocolates in a poly bag and you'll be lucky to get £1. That's marketing.

It costs more and it requires a lot more effort but if it were that easy then everyone would be doing it

[FiB]

We've decided to go with our local butcher prices, it seems fair in that our meat is fattier, but rare breed and free range so balance out ? He charges £3.00/ kg for half a pig boxed, no sausage or bacon. So we have been charging the same and get about 20kg of chops belly and joints back, then charge £6/ kg sausages (he charges 6.5) ..... So £100 gets you 20Kg pork on bone  and 6kg sausages ish. We don't charge for the trotters ears etc....

[Sudanpan]

On my rough figures I think our weaners will have cost us about £4.50/kg to produce - not counting costs of our time/electric (fencing) materials (ark, fencing, troughs etc etc)


I did a quick search of our local butchers and also local supermarkets for prices re free range pork/bacon/sausages and figure that pricing it at between £6/kg to £10/kg (sausages up to bacon) is fair - it is under the supermarket stuff (which ranged from £7 to £13/kg), covers our basic costs and will provide a bit of a fund to buy in the next lot of weaners next year.


Never embarked on this to produce cheap pork, but am happy to produce good, free range, small number pork etc at an appropriate cost.

[LadyEarth]

We've just had three saddlebacks back from the butcher.  Just for us so we can enjoy proper pork and bacon (and sausages  ) and sell some extra to friends. My OH has unexpectedly lost his job so we are considering developing the smallholding into something a bit more commercial and it's a nightmare!

I have got a really clear idea of how much it cost to raise the last three.  We weren't keeping an eye on the bottom line so they didn't go off until they were 10 months which massively increased the cost per kg.  But I still reckon it cost us £6.50/kg and that doesn't factor in mileage, labour or make any allowances for illness or loss.  Even if I send the next batch off a few months earlier I can't see enough profit...

Our pigs are truly free-range and furtle around in the woods for most of their lives and it really does taste better from anything I've had from a supermarket. I'd be interested in any tips for reducing costs without negatively impacting quality of life or flavour.

[MKay]

You can't, that's the point. Pher wise the pork at he supermarket would have better welfare.

£10/kg for boned out, vacuum packed, premium lables, of the most popular cuts. IS excellent value.

If you want to make money though go to a calf sale and buy a beef shorthorn sired calf at 3mth then sell it at 650kg. £700 easy money.