[Susannah]

I am so sorry to ask as I am sure this will have been asked lots of times before but I can't find the answer!
At what count of eggs present do you need to start worming? Is there an acceptable number they can live with and what is the top end of the scale?
I have just had results back from the vet of 500 which sounds horrendous! They are suggesting using benzimidazole drench (white drench) and then testing 10-14 days later to see if the worms were resistant or not. Does that sound like the best plan of action?
As always any comments gratefully received.

[Anke]

Are their droppings normal or runny? The one to watch out for is the Haemoncus contorta worm, as it causes anaemia rather then diarrhoea, but again under 500 it is sub-clinical.

Matthews says faecal egg counts of 500 to 2000 in kids present sub-clinical infection, so would have thought that unless your goats are unwell, maybe no need to worm?

I have had resistance to white wormers, so have now been on Oramec for a while (for both sheep and goats). Haven't wormed anyone this year, no need. Not even the sheep (since lambing). If I worm the goats they stay inside for a couple of days afterwards.

[cuckoo]

My vets suggest worming with a count >300 and then repeat 10 - 14 days after. If no resistance with the white wormer then I don't see a problem - your vet will know your herd.  Just make sure that you change wormers at least annually. The resample 10-14 days post worming is to check it is effective and not resistant.  Make sure you weigh as accurately as you can, dose for the right weight and your dosing gun is accurate. Also I use 2 x sheep dose for a white wormer

[fsmnutter]

As a vet, often the cut off is 300epg, but can somewhat go on signs too, if 500 but no scours, everyone is growing well and not thin, could consider not worming.
If you do worm, using white wormed is a good idea, it is cheap and generally safe, but do as said above, weigh goats accurately because they are heavier than they look, even to vets! And do use double the sheep dose.
Checking at 10-14 days is a great plan to see if you have any resistance.
PLEASE do not change workers every year, this is now known to increase the chances of getting resistance.
It is also worth having them on pasture that has been used for grazing for a week or so afterwards, that way if there are any resistant worms left in the gut, they will have to fight against non resistant worms that get picked up from the dirty pasture.
Have a look at SCOPS, although its for sheep, it can be applied to goats as well.
Hope that helps
Suzanne

[Roxy]

Having had a worm problem with some , so sof the goats I now do a worm count.  This time it came back high - over 500.  I have wormed all the goats and sheep, and will now do another worm count in a few weeks to see if its any different.

My vet looks at it, with the view that if the count is low, don't worm.  She says its likely my goats are now resistant to some wormers, so is monitoring us carefully and looking at different options  - she likes a challenge!!  But I don't like the bills!!

[Dogwalker]

My vet looks at it, with the view that if the count is low, don't worm.  She says its likely my goats are now resistant to some wormers, so is monitoring us carefully and looking at different options  - she likes a challenge!!  But I don't like the bills!!

Isn't it the worms that are resistant to the wormer not the goats?

[Womble]

PLEASE do not change workers every year, this is now known to increase the chances of getting resistance.

Really?  What's the reason for that then? (if it's known?).

[fsmnutter]

The worms have to develop resistance to each new wormer.
It takes a while, but once they have resistance they don't usually lose it.
If you change wormers every year, they develop resistance to different classes all at once, so no wormer can kill them. if you leave it until you have resistance to only one wormer, usually they can be killed off by the next class of wormer, and it will be some time before they become resistant to that kind, and so on.
Hope that makes sense!

[Womble]

Indeed - thanks for that. I totally get the reasons for trying to avoid resistance. However, this worming malarkey is pretty complicated, isn't it? 

The thing I found most surprising was the vet saying no action would be required at egg counts of less than 400 per gramme of poo. Seriously?!? 400 eggs per gramme is a low level of infection?

[Susannah]

Thank you everyone, that has put my mind at ease a wee bit. It is the first time the vet has recommended worming so I will do it now and hope I can keep the counts down in the future.

[ferretkeeper]

The worms have to develop resistance to each new wormer.
It takes a while, but once they have resistance they don't usually lose it.
If you change wormers every year, they develop resistance to different classes all at once, so no wormer can kill them. if you leave it until you have resistance to only one wormer, usually they can be killed off by the next class of wormer, and it will be some time before they become resistant to that kind, and so on.
Hope that makes sense!

Sorry to pick up an older thread but I'm still a bit confused - Suzanne, are you saying to keep using the same wormer until the worms become resistant? And presumably this would be confirmed by FEC? How long does it take to get to this point or does it vary?

[Steph Hen]

I found it strange reading this too, to avoid resistance to other things, don't they normally say to use two simultaneously, like insecticides or antibiotics..? Because the chance of organisms to evolve in two directions simultaneously is incredibly low whereas if used in sequence there is a greater opportunity for resistance to occur over time to each chemical and once developed it it likely to be conserved?