Agri Vehicles Insurance from Greenlands

Author Topic: Hellooo and help if possible? We really are accidental smallholders!  (Read 5297 times)

brooscopi

  • Joined Aug 2014
  • Aberdeenshire
Hi everyone!..bit nervous as I've never posted on a forum before but i suspect that this site will become the oracle to me in the coming years. We have recently bought a house in rural Aberdeenshire that happened to come with agricultural land (which we also fell in love with). It all happened very fast as we were almost without a roof over our heads. We didn't plan to buy a smallholding but wanted a big garden! So now we look forward to growing veg and having our own animals later on down the line once the wee ones are less dependent on me. Right now though, I have 2 burning questions:

1. There is a mortgage over the whole being home and land. We want to register as a business as we've had to employ agricultural services to plough and reseed 9.50 hectares of the land and so we plan to sell the grass or supply grazing rights.  My husband is working but i am not so the land is my project really. Are we right though in registering as a business partnership or is there a way i could be a sole trader or is that just a no no because of the initial set up of title?

2. Now we have lovely very new grass growing in the fields what would be the best way to treat the land? The grass is still very short and patchy? Do we just leave it until next Spring to grow and establish, or put sheep on it over this winter or sheep for a year? I'm wondering whether we should avoid cattle for a few years?

Any thoughts on above would be much appreciated.


« Last Edit: August 30, 2014, 12:53:41 pm by brooscopi »

clydesdaleclopper

  • Joined Aug 2009
  • Aberdeenshire
Re: Hellooo and help if possible? We really are accidental smallholders!
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2014, 11:03:10 am »
Hi and welcome from Huntly way  :wave:  I'm not sure about the business aspect I'm afraid. With respect to the land it is a good idea to find out as much as possible about what has been done to it over the past few years. You then need to come up with some ideas about how you want to use it and that will help to determine what is the best thing to do with it. It will also depend upon your soil type and it is well worth getting some comprehensive soil tests done so that you can see if there are any mineral deficiencies.
Our holding has Anglo Nubian and British Toggenburg goats, Gotland sheep, Franconian Geese, Blue Swedish ducks, a whole load of mongrel hens and two semi-feral children.

lachlanandmarcus

  • Joined Aug 2010
  • Aberdeenshire
Re: Hellooo and help if possible? We really are accidental smallholders!
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2014, 12:07:25 pm »
I would avoid cattle initially until you're sure you want them on there, if it's a wet winter they could trash the new grass. Ideally if there's enough grass to warrant it being newly sown, I would see if anyone wants to winter graze sheep on it. If the fencing is just wire they can bring their own electric reel fencing. It's not a big money spinner but it will do the land good fertilising the grass gently, and ready sprinkled!


We were paid 35p per head per week last winter for rough old fields. That was them doing all the work, water, looking over the sheep, moving fences to the next field etc.


This summer those fields had a lot less ragwort to pull, and the hay yield was better.


NB the first year after seeding it MIGHT be better simply to wait until summer and get someone to come and take a hay or silage crop from it, and pay you for that, giving the new grass more time to establish.


I can't comment on the business/legals stuff, the local solicitors all have agric departments or the accountants, might be worth a half hour chat given the implications of getting it right/wrong.

Factotum

  • Joined Jun 2012
Re: Hellooo and help if possible? We really are accidental smallholders!
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2014, 12:11:31 pm »
Hi from Moray,

Re the land - I agree with clydesdaleclopper - get a soil analysis to check pH and current nutrient sate - if the grass has been cut & taken away for many years without any addition of nutrients (manure etc) then you will find the grass grown is poor. If your soil is too acid, you need to correct that first before applying any fertiliser - otherwise you'll just be wasting your money.

Re sheep - how are your fences - sheep will wander unless kept in, a few may help the grass condition if your fences are good.

Re cattle - less likely to wander - smaller breeds will not poach the ground too much, but newly seeded grass should not have too much stock on it at first until it's established. Some breeds will thrive on poor quality grass & are happy to much on rushes. We keep Shetland cattle here - they do a grand job at tidying the fields - and produce excellent beef in the process.

Re letting - be very careful & get a good contract - Aberdeen & Northern the auction mart at Inverurie have a specialist department for grass letting - might be a good idea to chat with them. Don't let it out to the first farmer who comes knocking on your door.

Re the business - my OH is the sole trader here - though our property is owned jointly. Doesn't seem to be a problem.

Good luck

Sue

shep53

  • Joined Jan 2011
  • Dumfries & Galloway
Re: Hellooo and help if possible? We really are accidental smallholders!
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2014, 02:32:37 pm »
For the grass ,be very careful not to overgraze, ideally  about 8wks after sowing when the grass is about 6" long test it by grabbing a handful and rip it ( like a grazing animal ) and the roots should hold and the grass tear ,   you then need to graze it with sheep not cattle, fairly quickly down to 2"  ( sheep bite as opposed to cattle tearing and their small feet help compact the soil ) then remove the sheep and allow it to grow again then repeat ( this makes the grass roots tiller )    personally it would be next year before I cut it for forage .     And yes a simple soil test to establish any deficiences  should really have been done before sowing
« Last Edit: August 31, 2014, 06:50:11 pm by shep53 »

honeyend

  • Joined Oct 2011
Re: Hellooo and help if possible? We really are accidental smallholders!
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2014, 04:47:00 pm »
I have no idea about Scottish law, but I would be very careful when renting any land out about creating an agricultural tenancy, there are probably websites about it this one covers English law. http://www.netlawman.co.uk/legal-documents#land
 The easiest and to give you breathing space is to have some else's sheep to keep it tidy, preferably someone who knows what they are doing and are good stockman. They will keep everything tidy and you can learn from them and then you can decide when you are more settled what you want to do.
 I think you need to go and see a accountant or do a tax course to decide what is best for you as a business, I run our farm as I have few earning and any profit( which is non) would be my income. We are going to split the house from the land for inheritance reasons.
  You have will have lots of ideas over the next  months, take your time to decide.

Lesley Silvester

  • Joined Sep 2011
  • Telford
Re: Hellooo and help if possible? We really are accidental smallholders!
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2014, 06:28:02 pm »
 :wave:  I can't give you an opinion on your questions but just wanted to way welcome from a lovely  :sunshine: :sunshine: Shropshire.

brooscopi

  • Joined Aug 2014
  • Aberdeenshire
Re: Hellooo and help if possible? We really are accidental smallholders!
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2014, 07:52:40 pm »
Thanks everyone for the warm welcome and really good points and suggestions for me to get my head round.  I would not have thought of having the soil tested in order to know what fertiliser etc should be used. I will investigate straight away.

....clydesdale clopper, we're hoping to get along to the Huntly Food and Farming Festival next weekend...sounds fun and a bit mad!

clydesdaleclopper

  • Joined Aug 2009
  • Aberdeenshire
Re: Hellooo and help if possible? We really are accidental smallholders!
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2014, 09:07:58 pm »
....clydesdale clopper, we're hoping to get along to the Huntly Food and Farming Festival next weekend...sounds fun and a bit mad!


If you would like to meet up send me a PM and we can arrange something  :thumbsup:
Our holding has Anglo Nubian and British Toggenburg goats, Gotland sheep, Franconian Geese, Blue Swedish ducks, a whole load of mongrel hens and two semi-feral children.

mojocafa

  • Joined Sep 2012
  • Angus
Re: Hellooo and help if possible? We really are accidental smallholders!
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2014, 10:31:12 pm »
 :wave: hello from arbroath
pygmy goats, gsd, border collie, scots dumpys, cochins, araucanas, shetland ducks and geese,  marrans, and pea fowl in a pear tree.

brooscopi

  • Joined Aug 2014
  • Aberdeenshire
Re: Hellooo and help if possible? We really are accidental smallholders!
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2014, 12:12:43 pm »
 :wave: hello mojocafa....

shygirl

  • Joined May 2013
Re: Hellooo and help if possible? We really are accidental smallholders!
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2014, 12:33:50 pm »
hello from aberdeenshire too  :wave: :wave:
do you stay in huntly?

dont panic. we started off like you, started a partnership in a hurry etc but you dont need to own the land to run a business from it. a partnership means more paperwork, more tax returns. are you planning on making a profit or a loss to offset against your tax bill?
take your time and work out the priorities. business gateways are very good, they will advise, meet you and offer free courses for tax etc.
i would get insurance though for peace of mind.

brooscopi

  • Joined Aug 2014
  • Aberdeenshire
Re: Hellooo and help if possible? We really are accidental smallholders!
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2014, 12:57:01 pm »
Hi shygirl, we don't stay in Huntly but we're only about a 25 minute drive away. It's pretty local for us.  My main reason for registering as a business really is to become VAT registered. We are about to pay a huge invoice to the company we contracted to carry out the ploughing and reseeding. The invoice includes VAT which i want to reclaim. Also I'm wanting to know how to allocate profits and losses if we are in a business partnership.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 09:29:52 pm by brooscopi »

shygirl

  • Joined May 2013
Re: Hellooo and help if possible? We really are accidental smallholders!
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2014, 02:46:41 pm »
there are agricultural accountants - johnston carmicheal - in inverurie. the first appointment is usually free.
we are near ellon, so almost neighbours  :wave: :wave:

Factotum

  • Joined Jun 2012
Re: Hellooo and help if possible? We really are accidental smallholders!
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2014, 09:05:29 pm »
Re accountants - most of the farmers around here (near Forres in Moray) use Ritsons - despite there being a Johnston Carmichael locally. Probably indicates Ritsons are better value for money should you need to pay for their services. We had a free consultation with Ritsons - the accountant was very helpful and indicated we didn't need them - he was happy to chat HMRC & accounting for about an hour without charging us and gave us tips on completing self assessment forms for self employment.

Re VAT - you can claim back VAT ( if you have the invoices) for up to 4 years for goods and 6 months for services before you register for self employment. This can be useful if you have purchased things that will be used for the business before setting up. As a 'farmer' the tax-man understands that there will be a lag before any profit is likely from the business - HMRC & the VAT man are actually fairly helpful.

Sue




 

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