[twizzel]

Whilst obviously you'll have to spend more time on site if cows are calving, sheep are lambing or become ill, I think what could be an issue is just checking them once a day yet alone once every few days. It's fine devoting the time to them once they are ill, but if you check your sheep at 8am and one gets ill at 10am that day, it's going to go another 22 hours until you find it either dead or alive needing attention. Whereas if you went twice a day, the longest it may go until you find it is overnight. And the other thing to note is are you able to drop everything if a cow or sheep becomes ill?

I don't mean to rain on your parade or anything but you've got to make the time to visit every day probably twice a day- no journey is unnecessary when it comes to checking livestock.

If you're going down the poultry route first I think you need to invest in automatic door timers as well as electric fence. Security wise padlock gates and good fencing is probably the best you can do as well as getting friendly with your neighbours so that they may keep an eye on things when you aren't there.

[bigchicken]

Ok my main worry would be not being able to attend to my animals from illness or some other thing that would prevent me, that means if I have a cold the flu sore back am half blinded with plaster in my eye have 14 urine infection one after I have to go.  I am concerned that by not being there more I will be to late to help or prevent anything that would effect the welfare of my stock, for example a Fox taking my bantams during the day, sheep getting into some kind or trouble at lambing etc. I also think if I lived on site I would get things done more quickly and with less fuss as everything would be at hand and not need to be transported As I said before it's a big commitment that means you must must be up for it and absolutely can't say I can't be bothered or it is only this time it won't matter, well it does and I can't stress this enough. I have become used to the traveling and apart from that my circumstance is not that much differant from some one who has a smallholding and works elsewhere. Say to yourself do I want to make this kind of a commitment for 20 years. Hope that helps a bit if you have any specific questions please ask and I will try and answer cheer all the best. 

[Ryder]

Ok, I think the last 2 posts have got through to me.  Yeah, gonna have to realistically account for atleast 2 journey's (minimum) per day for welfare issues.

That's about £7-£8 blown in fuel everyday!  That's almost £3000 a year and prices are only going up.  That is just not an option for me, I just cannot justify that expense!  I always considered myself to be a cycler but 10 miles everyday is again not realistic.  Motorbike?  Probably still cost £1500 year plus initial outlay. (sorry was just thinking aloud).  And even then I would be in a constant state of worry, worrying about animals are ok, worrying about security, as no matter what you probably cannot get decent security unless you get great neighbours.

Sigh, annoying planning regulations.  They should atleast let smallholders build a tiny residence, or atleast let us stay in a caravan year round for crying out loud.  What harm is it going to do anyone if we stay in a caravan overnight!

Well, back to dreaming.

[Fleecewife]

Good decision Ryder sad though it is for you.  Don't let it stop you looking for land a bit closer to home - some is bound to turn up in time - serendipity happens 

[Ryder]

Unfortunately, when you live in the middle of a city like Birmingham, and urbanisation surrounds you for miles in every direction, getting anything decent under 10 miles is very unlikely.

[Backinwellies]

Don't suppose you have a local city farm you could get involved with .... a way to get lots of experience and help children too.

[suziequeue]

Ryder - if you ever want to come here for a weekend then be my guest!!! We are on a direct train route from Brum

[Ryder]

I could look into the local farm idea, I am not aware of any at the moment.  Thanks for the offer suzie, I may take you up on it someday.

[shygirl]

why not volunteer at a rspb branch? ours has konik ponies and cattle grazing the fields, and they were keen for experienced volunteers to help them.
when i kept ponies at diy livery, i checked them twice a day even when living out. now we have livestock at home but silly things do happen, heads, legs and horns get caught in fences, hens become egg-bound, animals escape, loose dogs visit etc
i feel for you though. have you considered moving location? there are plenty of smallholding in scotland that are affordable. we moved upto aberdeenshire 10 yrs ago purely for the land and it is very lovely.

[Bramblecot]

Friends of mine did the 'smallholding at a distance' for 3 years.  7 miles each way, twice a day.  It was crippling financially, and if they didn't check the animals twice a day, crippling with worry .  They often ended up camping there, then using a camper van, then a 'hidden' caravan.  All very worrying, and in the end, they were reported to the Council.  The whole family needs to be really, really committed - or something will give.  Sorry to be  .

That said, I bought my field when I lived 170 miles away .  Just took me 3 years to move nearer.

[Stereo]

A local guy had a field about 4 miles from his house in the village and had 100 or so hens and some geese there. It was fairly remote but on a road and he got cleaned out twice by thieves so gave up in the end. I guess it's pretty easy to watch from a distance or a couple folk with mobiles etc. Quick call when he gets home.

[shygirl]

maybe get like minded friends to join ranks with you?

[Torrin37]

We bought some land 10 miles away a couple of years ago, having looked for something closer for more than 3 yrs. For all sorts of reasons it's not feasible to move somewhere more rural at the moment (we're in South Oxfordshire but in a town) and in the end, having looked for so long, we decided to give it a try.

When we bought the land it was in an environmental scheme which means we have been extremely limited as to what we can do with it. The scheme is now coming to an end but I'm so glad we were unable to leap feet first into anything. We are taking things very slowly.  We've got to know the land over several seasons and a wide variety of weather as well as knowing how long it takes in different conditions to get there. We are investing this autumn in a secure barn.

We plan to start with some chickens, electric fencing and automatic pop holes. If that goes ok I'd like to try pigs - not breeding, just raising a couple of weaners over the summer.  If that works I'll try sheep the following year. I will be visiting the land at least twice a day but I do worry about security when I'm not there.

I'm optimistic that it can be made to work.  I've spent the last few years reading and inwardly digesting everything small holding and animal related although I admit my practical experience is limited! I feel as ready as possible to start giving things a go but I think by taking things slowly and building up gradually I can give it a shot and if it really doesn't work for reasons I can't yet plan for, then I won't have got in too far too fast and at least I'll have given it a shot!

I realise this wouldn't work for everyone.  We bought the land as a long term investment and my OH has a good, well paid job without which it wouldn't be possible at all. We didn't buy it with any ideas of making money in the short term and in fact will be losing money for years while we pay it off.  But I love it there. Any free time I have, that's where I go.  Sometimes you have to work hard to follow your dreams within the restraints life gives you.

Plan, plan and plan some more. Research, think things through and plan some more.  But don't give up if it's what you really want to do.  Just make sure you have contingencies in place and be prepared to admit to failure at even the first hint that your animal welfare is suffering.

[Ryder]

Thanks for sharing the experiences of people you know who have tried bramble and stereo.  Makes me realise just how difficult it is.

Good suggestions shygirl.  I will be moving as soon as I possibly can but for various reasons it's just not possible yet and probably not possible for atleast another 5 years unfortunately.

Torrin, I'd love to know how your experience goes over the next couple of seasons as you slowly start to get into keeping livestock that far from home. After much thought and the response of people on this and other forums, I have scraped the idea of getting a smallholding so far from home.  Too many issues.  I will have to move at some point in the future.

Until then and on the bright side (for me), I have a fairly decent sized garden in which I keep more than a dozen chickens comfortably (no overcrowding at all).  I also have enough space to start a small fish pool/farm as well as a worm farm, but perhaps the best thing is what I discovered over the last couple of days.  Last week I thought I had better get onto the waiting list for an allotment as they average about 3 years waiting time.  I had to give my top 3 choices.  My closest one, my first choice, was on the other side of a large park (I live 30 seconds from the park on this side), and this would also be the quietest and most scenic one (as much as scenic gets within a city).  It would be less than about 4 minutes to walk to from my house, and the walk would be a nice walk across the park.  They got back to me and it so happens that on this very allotment there a couple of plots becoming available at the beginning of next month and there's no waiting list.  And they are the large size plots too, almost a quarter of an acre (16m x 45m approx)!  I could not believe it.  It's about best thing that can happen to someone who can't move to a rural location, a quarter of an acre almost on my front doorstep!   I can keep my beehives there as well as sort out all the veg and herbs as well as some fruits and keep more chickens if I want to. It's only the larger livestock I am missing out on for now.  Did someone mention something about serendipity?

[Backinwellies]

   So pleased for you.