[Ryder]

I may be able to purchase approx 4 or 5 acres or so of agricultural/grazing land soon.  However, as I'm sure most of you already know, the chances of getting planning permission for having even a static caravan let alone building a home there are very very slim.  So I will not be living on site.

The land maybe 10 miles or more away from my house.  I would want to keep things like chickens, ducks, goats sheep and maybe even a cow if space permits as well as possibly planting fruit trees, vegetable gardening etc.

Is it possible, or will it just be too difficult?  What problems can you foresee (security issues, travel expenses, time spent...) and more importantly, what options are there to overcome those problems?  Maybe only certain types of livestock or plants will be suitable in this sort of setup, if so what types?

I have come across atleast one person who kept chickens and horses on about 3 acres, but lived about 7 miles away.  Not in touch with them anymore though, so not sure how they managed it.

[twizzel]

Chicken/duck wise you'd need to fit the house with an automatic pop hole timer so it opens and closes automatically therefore not necessitating you to be there at each end of the day.

Most animals need to be checked twice a day so fuel expenses need to come into the equation, plus what will you do when your sheep are lambing or cow is due to calve? I guess it depends how much time you can give up to it, it's more of an effort having animals off site and obviously a risk security wise- you would need to have locked gates, very good fencing etc.

[Backinwellies]

10 miles is a long way.  I think I would forget poultry.... have enough trouble going out for a long day here with the ducks and hens to see too.  Avoid breeding stock.  finishing  some store lambs for the freezer could be doable  or even cattle if you can get the handing kit (you will need a decent water source.

Veg gardening etc I guess depends on location ... and security.

[Ryder]

Travelling twice a day would be far too costly for me, maybe just get away with travelling back and forth once a day.

During lambing, you can have a caravan on site for 28 days I think.  The same maybe for calving?  Better than nothing I guess.

I know a lot of horses keepers keep horses miles  away from home in their fields (not liveries), but horses have tracking implants these days so security is not as much of a worry with them.  I was wondering if something similar could be achieved with livestock?  Chickens and ducks I thought would have been an easier option, in their coops can usually go for a day or two without being checked on so long as they have access to food and water and it's not overcrowded (wait do you need planning permission to build large coops? If not then I might just build them an extra luxurious one in which I can stay too ) but then security is another issue, besides CCTV how can you keep your chickens from being stolen?

How long can Lambs, goats and cows go without being checked if they have the basics like food and water?

[bigchicken]

I live a wee bit away from my smallholding 15 minutes by car and am there every morning and night and as much as possible in the day. I keep Shetland sheep who are easy lambers and fairly low maintenance also a couple of Castlemilk Moorits also easy, ( as easy as any sheep can be. ) poultry wise I have a few geese and turkeys every year for Christmas and some Scots Grey and Scots Dumpy bantams. I am self employed so can work as and when I like which gives me a certain amount of freedom with time. It is a big commitment. I have great neighbours next to my place who keep an eye on things and let me know if anything is amiss and also look after the animals when I'm on holiday. You have to love the way of life and work at it. My place is far from perfect but one day maybe there will be more folks to comment best of luck.

[Fleecewife]

In your position, I wouldn't buy it.   Somewhere closer will turn up.   Animals have, by law, to be checked at least once a day, which means going to your land come rain or shine, deep snow, heat wave or you feeling ill, every single day.

If fuel costs would be an issue to visit twice a day, then what about vet costs?  You can't stint on animal welfare.  By waiting to buy somewhere closer, you would have more cash for vet bills, not spent on fuel.


I worry that you want to 'get by' with visiting less frequently than every day.  Besides the fact that to run a place with that many livestock (including goats and a cow which have to be milked), plus veg growing, requires a large input of time and effort, 'getting by' isn't really an acceptable approach to keeping animals. As bigchicken says, it is a big commitment, and I don't see that from you in your question.   
 Sorry if this sounds harsh and like bursting your bubble, but I don't think you're being realistic about the amount of work involved, the animal's welfare and the law.  Perhaps you should take more time to research just what will be involved in running a place like that, and getting some practical experience if you have none, before rushing headlong into something which quite honestly I think is doomed to fail.

Now I'd better duck behind the sofa 

[Ryder]

I agree with everything you say fleecewife.  Don't get me wrong, I would be spending a large portion of everyday there (or someone from the family on any days I cannot make it).  The point about chickens being O.K. for a day or two without being checked was like an absolute worst case scenario. But I was wondering more on the "can it be done" side or is it a very foolish thing to do, because whilst I may be there for large portions of the day (everyday), I will not be there for the night.  And that brings up the whole issue of security.

But is security the only major thing I have to think of if I am not staying there overnight?  I think I can handle the cost of daily travel, it's just like travelling to work.  (I'm self employed anyway so very flexible in that respect).

bigchicken, could you possibly elaborate a bit more on the things that concern you or things that you often think about or are worried about by not living on your plot?

[Stellan Vert]

Hi Ryder

Rebecca Laughton published her research project, in which she examined various smallholdings and their management, the book is called:

Surviving and thriving on the land- How to use your time and energy to run a successful smallholding.

By Rebecca Laughton

It is a sensible, no nonesense, which is based on hard won experience, one area that is investigated is having land miles from home and the relevant problems.

Hope this helps

SV.

[twizzel]

I think where ever you have livestock you need to visit a minimum of once a day. They will look after themselves to an extent but if you have a sheep get stuck on it's back or come down with mastitis, or a lamb with pneumonia or bloat, or sheep stuck in the hedge, calf not sucking, cow go down with milk fever etc etc time is of the essence. If you can't guarantee you won't be able to check them at least once a day then I can't see livestock working.

Chicken even if they are in a coop still need to be shut away at night, a fox will just dig under the run and hey presto chicken dinner is served.

[SallyintNorth]

As twiz says, there are times when once a day simply isn't enough - when heavily fleeced, when heavily pregnant, when lambing or calving, for instance.  So as well as being able to commit to - and enjoy, whatever the weather or other factors, the daily visits, you would also need to feel confident that you could visit more frequently at times when the welfare of the livestock might demand that.

[Stereo]

I can only speak from a poultry perspective at the moment but even though I am living on our farm, I have tried, or am aspiring, to design all our poultry flocks, runs, coups, broodies etc. to be able to survive for 3 whole days without attention. Now that never happens, or hasn't yet but that is how I look at everything I do. If I was sick in bed and nobody found me for 3 days (unlikely as I have a wife and 3 boys), would anything die? 

I find that in doing that, you feel less pressure. You can fill up the feeders and drinkers when you have the time and know that although you will probably be back in a few hours that if, for some reason, you weren't, the animals will have enough resources to get through until somebody thinks about checking on them.

I've also gone for 3 days because due to time, work and money constraints, our family is likely to only go away for the odd long camping weekend for the next few years at least and while I can get our lovely neighbours to check in on the chickens, I know that if for some reason they let me down, the birds will all still be alive when I return.

It's maybe a bit over the top but smelly things do occasionally hit fans.

[Backinwellies]

Stereo .... great idea and one we aspired too as well .......... 7 foot fencing , sheltered by trees from sun and excess rain, houses large enough for feed and water to be inside and just saving for auto door shutters when aforementioned trees (all 60 - 70 feet of them) blew down in a gale and flattened the lot (but only one duck fortunately) .............. back to the drawing board!!    Moto here is yes daily checks are essential ... who knows what may happen!!

[Stereo]

Should have had those trees down and on the firewood stack before it got windy

[Backinwellies]

Should have had those trees down and on the firewood stack before it got windy

  .... why pay £2000 when the wind does it for free 

[Ryder]

Yes, when any of the livestock become ill, that will be a testing time requiring far more time on site.  Spending time on site is something I can do as I am very flexible due to being self employed.  It would need careful planning obviously so I do not have to do unnecessary journeys.  I would rather go there in the morning and come back in the evening, than make two or more journeys.  Obviously precautions will have to be taken against predators also (electric fences etc).

Also, I don't plan on doing everything in one go.  I will probably start of with poultry as I have a fair bit of experience, some beehives, as I am learning all that now, and then move onto perhaps sheep or goats.

I absolutely understand it will be very difficult and there will be very testing times.  But I am willing to give it a shot as it is a passion.

My main concern still remains security.  Any more thoughts on the whole security issue i.e leaving livestock unguarded at night and ways to work around this issue?

Thanks for the book recommendation SV, I will look into it.  Certainly seems like it could provide some useful tips.