[sanman]

Just been called by a planning officer who has informed me that I need planning consent for my poultry house, pig ark etc and even the fencing because its closer than 400 metres to the nearest house.

Now I've found comment to this for Intensive Livestock Units but can't find any other reference.

Can anyone help?

[Roxy]

I know they have this rule with stables, although many are passed  as ok, even if they are closer than the 400m.  There is also a rule about stables being back from highways.

I was not aware that poultry houses came under this rule.  I mean, people have hen sheds in their gardens, and also pig sheds etc.  and they have neighbours either side?

[carl]

Mark, is this a problem in the pipeline for most people with animal housing and fences? is it a local thing? in which case there would be a lot of us who do not comply. is the planning officer applying rules for commercial units to smallscale keepers? bloody hell this could be the end of all backyard hens,pigs,pigeons aviaries etc .
who was the planning officer? I will do a bit of investigating. Oh is a partner in the commercial property dept of a big national law firm.let's roll out the cavalry.

[Rosemary]

This is the advice I was given by our planning department:

The tests of whether PP is required in this case are basically:
Is the building for an agri purpose on an agri unit  of more than 0.4Ha?
Would the building plus any others erected in the last 2 years exceed 265sqm?
Would any part of the building be within 25m of a metalled portion of a classified road?
Would the height of the building exceed 12m?

If the answer is NO to all of these questions, then no PP is required.  Hope that helps.

[oaklandspigs]

Would question whether you have actually been called by a real planning officer -it would be highly unusual for one to call and accuse over the phone, rather than phone to arrange a visit.

Have you upset a neighbour??

From my basic understanding :

Fence - under 6 ft you can do anything as long as your deeds allow (e.g. some estates forbid fencing)
Pig ark and chicken house- as long as moveable, is a temprary structure eg http://www.nationalbuildings.co.uk/mobile_field_shelters.asp

Also look at the guide on this site :

http://www.communities.gov.uk/publications/planningandbuilding/farmersguide

Let us know what happens

[oaklandspigs]

PS

How did the conversation end??

The next logical step wouyld be a visit, followed by an enforcement notice if they believed you contrvened.

Simply telling you to remove over the phone would not happen, officialdom doesn't act like that !!

[sanman]

I got an official very threatening letter.

Upon phoning him he stated that any animal housing needed planning permission if it was on agricultural land and less than 400metres from the nearest house.

I had orginally phone the planning office up asking for advice and they stated any timber movable structure did not require planning permission.  Intestingly my wife phoned again this afternoon and was given the same advice.

However this officer is insisting that it is a problem and that we require planning consent.  We have a field shelter, two pig arcs and two small poultry sheds which are approximately 250 metres away from the nearest house.  He even stated that we needed planning consent for fences as he classified them as animal housing.  When I stated that some of the fences were electrical and were easily moved to allow us to rotate the pasture for the poultry, he stated we would need to get planning permission every time we moved the fence at @ £175 per shot.

He seemed to have a major bee in his bonnet about us being a 'community' farm and accused us of having plans to build roads across the field and erect toilets and changing rooms.

I fail to see why planning permission would be needed for a couple of pig arks and poultry sheds, none of which are larger than 10' * 6' - this is in a 6.5 acre field!

Carl any help/advice on this matter would be really appreciated,.  As you may imagine this is causing a major amount of stress at the moment.

I have arranged to meet the planning officer in the morning so will let you know the outcome.

[shetlandpaul]

speak to his manager and your councillors.

[doganjo]

I agree, this is highly irregular.  If you are unhappy with the way he is conducting business with you, then you have the right to contact his superior.  I have done that and it works. I had a letter of apology and an overturn of the instructions within 48 hours.

[little blue]

Upon phoning him he stated that any animal housing needed planning permission if it was on agricultural land and less than 400metres from the nearest house.

Whats the difference between "agricultural land" and a property with cph?
Is it to do with size, or usage?    just wondered!

Sounds like you've got a 'jobsworth' there Sanman.

[smiffy]

sounds very much like nonesense to me

We have an agric holding.
we errected fencing, have 14 pig arcs, 27 small chicken huts, 1 large straw shelter, and a 60X50 barn.
we did not need planning for any of it, just prior notification for the barn,

do some research on the net, moveable structures do not need planning, unless they are polytunnels,

the only other thing could be something to do with the near housing, however i know farmers who have estates near them and as far as i am aware same rules apply.  Local councils have different interpritations of the rules. If you have a good agricultural agent near they will be able to advise. We used brown and co, not sure if they are in your area.

[oaklandspigs]

The animal housing within 400m is sort of correct.

It does need some picking apart though

rule a - if temporary and movable (eg pig ark) then no permission needed - the stuff about fences is totally off the wall
rule b - if fixed, and within 400M of another property then full permission needed unless it is only to house animals during birth and/or inclemenet weather, so if only for inclement and birthing, then agricultural permssion needed (30 day rule).  we did this for our lambing shed.

Agree with others this planning officer is way OTT, get their supervisot involved.  If you are totally wrong in every respect (and I don't think you are) you cannot be any worse off by appealing higher up, so theer is nothing to lose.

[oaklandspigs]

Sorry brain not working in unison tonight so second PS

If you don't get an immedaite resolution would be worth paying to get experts on your side.

This firm are nationwide
http://www.acorus.co.uk/contact/team.php

Have seen many articles by them in "South East Farmer" and whilst do not have persoanl experience they seem to know what they are on about for smallholders as well as the big boys.

[sanman]

The letter from the planning officer reads:

Unauthorised use of land advertised as *************** Community Farm

I write in connection with the above peice of land and seek clarification of its intended use.

The housing of the animals on the above mentioned land, together with the associated wooden structures, require planning consent owing to their distance between the animals and the residential properties.  I am concerned that as the animals and the piece of land are currently being marketed as a community farm, you maybe wishing to erect further structures to satisfy health and safety issues and to provide access into the field.

Whilst keeping a small number of animals on the land on the peice of land may be acceptable if a planning application were submitted, I am concerned that any further development maybe unacceptable due to the Green Belt status of the land.

I would appreciate it if you can contact me to clarify the situation either by phone or in writing.  I should warn you, however, that if I haven't heard anything from you in the next 14 working days, I will have to start formal enforcement procedures.

The above comments are officer opinions only and do not prejudice any future decisions taken by the Local Planning Authority.


As far as I can see the mention of Green Belt is a complete red herring, as the 400 metre rule that he's quoting is in a completely different peice of planning guidance.

His real hangup seems to be what we may want to do in the future.  However surely we can't be held accountable for something we haven't done?

[Roxy]

Sounds like they are covering themselves for something that you may or indeed may not, do in the future.

Are you in the green belt?  We are on the edge of a national park, and in an area of outstanding beauty ....and have a lot of rules.  We cannot even put up a field shelter without planning permission, and even that is turned down if they feel like it.

Do you think a neighbour has complained? If so, the council have to follow this up.  I would ask for a site visit, to discusss exactly what the problem is.  I cannot see that pig arcs and poultry sheds need permission, even in my strict area!!  The area of land you are on is big enough for agricultrual use.  Sometimes they get people on the fact that they need change of use for a plot of land, if its been used for some other purpose......