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Author Topic: What is it in chick food that ducks can't have?  (Read 4912 times)

Womble

  • Joined Mar 2009
  • Stirlingshire, Central Scotland
What is it in chick food that ducks can't have?
« on: August 16, 2014, 11:36:20 pm »
OK, so I know that some chicken growers are medicated, and that's bad for ducks (and presumably geese?).

Can anybody tell me if this also applies to chicken layers pellets, and if so, what are the magic ingredients I need to look for on the label to check they're not there?  The only guidance it gives is "layers pellets, for target species only".

Thanks!!
"All fungi are edible. Some fungi are only edible once." -Terry Pratchett

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • ScotHebs
Re: What is it in chick food that ducks can't have?
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2014, 11:38:47 pm »

I'm looking forward to replies to this.  We fed our Muscovies on chick crumbs and hen food, and some of them developed droopy wings.  We were told this was from feeding hen food, but not which ingredient caused it.
"Let's not talk about what we can do, but do what we can"

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Do something today that your future self will thank you for - plant a tree

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jaykay

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Cumbria/N Yorks border
Re: What is it in chick food that ducks can't have?
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2014, 07:54:54 am »
It's the coccidiostat that's often put in chick  crumbs, ie amprolium.
I do prefer chick crumbs with it in for chicks, as I did have some quite ill with coccidiosis once.

However, I also have experienced ducklings fed it and they were really poorly. Once we realised that's what was being fed, and advised on changing to an ACS-free crumb, some of the ducklings recovered, but unfortunately some were too far gone and died.

Droopy wings could be angel wing, which can be caused by feed too high in protein, so that the big wing primaries develop too fast and before the wing muscles are capable of holding the weight. It's often an issue in geese, so I can see it could be in Muscovies too.  The ducklings I saw that were fed the wrong chick crumbs were just small, weedy and sick. (The treatment for angel wing is to bandage the wings to the body, while the bird grows and 'catches up')

Most layers pellets done have ACS in them, as by that age, pullets have developed their natural resistance - but you know what they say, always read the label.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2014, 07:56:58 am by jaykay »

lord flynn

  • Joined Mar 2012
Re: What is it in chick food that ducks can't have?
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2014, 09:36:57 am »
having read up on this they also don't recommend poultry layers pellets for when ducks are not laying but other than that its the ACS as described which isn't in layers -at least not in any of the layers pellets I've used.

Womble

  • Joined Mar 2009
  • Stirlingshire, Central Scotland
Re: What is it in chick food that ducks can't have?
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2014, 09:57:08 am »
Great, that's very helpful Jaykay and Lord Flynn.

So, I've looked out the growers pellets which do say "ACS", though I never knew for sure what that meant before, and they do say they contain Coccidiostats of Lasalocid Sodium and Avatec (presumably that's a trade name for amprolium?). So they shouldn't be fed to ducks, although I had already figured that out.

The layers pellets seem to be free from any coccidiostats, so I guess they're fine for ducks. However, they do contain lots of other lovelies which I've had to look up to see what they do!

  • DICAL (D-Calcium Pantothenate), which is a vitamin B5 suppliment which shouldn't be taken when pregnant (though presumably that doesn't apply if you're a chicken?!  ;D )
  • Ethoxyquin, which is an antioxidant used to prevent the oils in the pellets from going rancid
  • BHA (Butylated Hydroxyanisole), which is another antioxidant
All interesting stuff, eh?

BTW Lord Flynn - what DO you feed ducks that aren't laying them?  ???
"All fungi are edible. Some fungi are only edible once." -Terry Pratchett

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • ScotHebs
Re: What is it in chick food that ducks can't have?
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2014, 10:04:11 am »

Thank you jaykay - yes, it was angel wings, and you're right, they did improve to perfect or almost perfect by the time they were full sized.  We didn't bandage them as we didn't know to do that.
So it's too much protein in the feed.  We'll know what to avoid if we get more ducks - thank you.
"Let's not talk about what we can do, but do what we can"

There is NO planet B - what are YOU doing to save our home?

Do something today that your future self will thank you for - plant a tree

 Love your soil - it's the lifeblood of your land.

HesterF

  • Joined Jul 2012
  • Kent
  • HesterF
Re: What is it in chick food that ducks can't have?
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2014, 11:13:23 pm »
Yep, two different things. The coccidiosis stuff is normally only in chick crumb, I think - I hadn't realised it was in growers so I'll double check that tomorrow. According to an article I read this morning, some domestic ducks are OK with it but it is normally fatal for ornamental/wild waterfowl so best to avoid rather than taking the risk.

Angel wing can be caused by keeping them on crumb for too long because it is higher in protein than growers - waterfowl tend to move on to growers earlier than chicks would (probably about 3 to 4 weeks). As soon as you see the primaries are dropping, it's best to reduce protein further by mixing growers with wheat. Having said that, I have a goose with angel wing and she was raised with five others on exactly the same food and none of the others had the problem. I've taped her and taped her and one side is now OK but I've given up on the other. She can now wriggle out of the tape anyway. Apparently you can keep the primaries trimmed after each moult to make it look better but it is illegal to operate on it so she'll always be like that. I'll not breed from her, nor sell her for pure breed breeding in case there is a genetic element to the condition (there can be) but I'll try and find her a nice home with some friendly geese for company.

I feed all the geese and ducks waterfowl growers mixed with wheat when they're not laying (which for the geese is most of the year!). In breeding season they'll be on breeders and the ducks (who are still laying) are currently on layers because I'm not going to hatch the eggs but they still need the additional calcium. It can't do them any huge harm to keep them on layers when they're not laying otherwise the drakes and ganders would be suffering.

H

 

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