[farmvet]

Hi there wonderwolly. The reason behind not feeding pigs any meat, or any kitchen waste, goes back to the foot and mouth outbreak in the uk which was caused by feeding kitchen waste to pigs. Meat is still imported from countries with f & m. The virus could transfer from meat products to other kitchen waste on eg knifes, chopping boards etc. Pigs are very susceptible and don't need a lot of virus to cause disease. they are excellent multipliers of the virus and rapidly shed huge quantities even though they may not look that sick themselves. So that's why its illegal to feed anything out of the kitchen now. Your lambs would probably be safe BUT don't do it!

[oaklandspigs]

Wonderwoolley

OK, lets split legal and scientific

Until 2001 pigs in the UK were fed pig swill which contained both meat and veg from kitchens, caterings and all food outlets.  This had to be heat treated, and it was lack of sufficient heat treatment that led to the 2001 outbreak according to the authorities.  Until 1967 pigs were fed raw swill and had been for many centuries!

Pigs are omnivores, and wild boar quite happily eat any dead animals they find.

So scientifically feeding meat and veg will not do your pigs any harm.

Legally feeding waste throughout the EU is governed by EU regulation 1774/2002 which in the UK is enacted by the Animal by-products regulations 2005 which states in article 11(5)

(5)It is an offence for any person to allow livestock to have access to any catering waste.....

 
(7) In this regulation “livestock” means all farmed animals, and any other ruminant animals, pigs and birds (other than wild birds).

Catering waste is defined at the start of Article 11of the UK legislation:

This regulation applies in relation to—

(a) catering waste of all kinds...

So in the UK it is a blanket ban on all catering waste, within which Defra counts domestic premises.

But the EU legislation does not define catering waste, and it is up to each EU state to either define in it's domestic legislation or if not defined, then decide what to prosecute. So iof a country chooses to allow a difference between domestic and catering waste, then that's up to them.

So it may well be acceptable either by law or by custom in France to feed kitchen scraps. I personally don't know, but I do know that many EU states manage to interpret long and complicated EU legislation very differently !

Wonderwooley - if you have some source in France to quote on this, I'd love to see it, it would be interesting.

Finally is it desirable to allow this to happen - well that depends entirely on your point of view, and I don't plan to go there !

[MAK]

Hi Wonderwooley.
You can keep a couple of pigs for home consumption and home kill in France - it is common place. If you visit your local Chambre d'agriculture( Service Elevage) and explain you have a couple of pigs they will give you a holding number (numero d'elevage - porcin). We paid our 10€ and have never heard from them since except for them posting a newsletter and details of local events. I know of Uk people who have sold us weaners and they provide tagged pigs and movement papers but they never ask for my holding number.
I would echoe all above posts and add that growing root veg and pumpkins is a good idea if you have the land. We ( like everyone else here) give veg scraps that do not include or have been in contact with meat. You may have an abundance of fruit that they will eat and we collect chestnuts and walnuts en mass.
Home kill - Ask anyone in the local hunt if they know who can kill your pigs. Our man is very professional and will not accept anything for his service to the community. He washes up before he puts on his white boiler suit and is very quick - you will need a tractor to lift the pig up  and our man brings a gas bottle to burn the hair before we jet wash the pig in the yard.
Butchering and processing - do it yourself and visit GammVert for any hardware you may need ( mincer etc). Our supermarket butcher slips us sausage skins or you can order those bits online from Weschenfelders.
Do you live near the same Woolf sanctuary as us in La Creuse ( the one that a wolf escaped from earleir in the year) - if so then PM me if you need a contact to kill the pigs.   

[Hough]

Sorry to cause a little thread drift but...
Hi Wonderwooly and MAK, I am also a pig keeper in the Creuse and am curious what your feeding and where you are getting it? If you don't mind me asking.
P.S I have some lovely GOS X Tamworth weaners ready if there of interest to anyone.

[wonderwooly]

Hello all

and thank you for your informative posts, in particular farmvet and oaklands.
it is really important to understand rather than follow blindly legislation particularly when we are trying to find a good solution to working together with french family's here and thoroughly understanding why curtain laws exist. partly so we can discus them in a second language with more confidence. It can be hard to justify changing habits that have existed here and generally work because some one has differing information.
eu laws aside there are a lot a pigs (in the back), and killed ;a la masion. here it is the norm. same go's on registered big'ish farms. what the pigs are fed seems very much up to the individual, and
ranges from potatoes, beets, a mix of cereals and beans/peas, and the by product's of
making cheese. plus in some cases kitchen waste. there is of course pig nuts available
in the agricultural shops but in reality if you read the ingredients i am not sure that is
best.
I think I am coming to the opinion that a really good compost system and a regular crop of beats and a really good sources of mixed cereals beans/pea. would be the best
route. any opinions

[Bex]

Until 2001 pigs in the UK were fed pig swill which contained both meat and veg from kitchens, caterings and all food outlets.  This had to be heat treated, and it was lack of sufficient heat treatment that led to the 2001 outbreak according to the authorities.  Until 1967 pigs were fed raw swill and had been for many centuries!

Hi oaklandspigs.

Stupid question - is this phrase just fancy lawyer speak for 'cooked'? I've seen it a couple of times and I'd just like to be sure.

      

[oaklandspigs]

Bex,

In essence yes !

Swill had to be boiled in licenced pots for I think 2 hours (we didn't feed swill).

[littlegem]

talking of legislations and not allowing pigs to eat meat, has anyone else seen the eu regulation 2014 regarding pigs? I did a movement licence on thursday and it's changed a bit, you have to read the regulation etc. It talks about it being passed that pigs should be kept indoors where there is no entry by any other animal, any carnivorous birds, rodents etc. You have to agree that you keep your land rodent free and all foods are to be from a pig feed manufacturer and any other foods must be heat treated. Am guessing this means fruit and veg, it was specific. I'm not the best at reading the complicated jargon so am interested in what other people make of it. Here is the page the pighub, as it is called now, directed me to read
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32014R0216&from=EN

[hughesy]

Littlegem that is all referring to the proposed trichinella testing regime that is about to be imposed on pig keepers and abattoirs. What you refer to is the possible exemption from the testing process of holdings where the pigs are kept in audited "controlled conditions", ie indoors etc, etc, There isn't going to be any requirement to change the way most of us keep our pigs but those of us that use free range and/or not " controlled" systems will have to have every carcass tested for trichinella at the abattoir. It is going to be a royal pain in the arse and bearing in mind it's supposed to start in a couple of weeks, nobody seems to know how it's going to happen. It was supposed to start back in june but they had to abort it due to a complete lack of any planning or awareness.