[bekka@dh]

We have an area of approx 625m square fenced with stock netting.
The hens (and hopefully ducks in the near future) use this area when we are around and are kept within a smaller fox proofed 2x 6m run when we are not around.

My question is...do we just bite the bullet and let the hens out all of the time?! We are thinking about getting ducks too so I guess the more space the less mess?!

[Stereo]

We do that although we have an auto door closer on the big house. We have 2 x 50m nets in a square with a decent energiser. So far, so good although you never know I guess. I have seen foxes in the field and on the odd occasion a hen has escaped, have found feathers so they are around but they don't like the netting. The biggest problem we have is keeping it working well which means constant strimming of the grass to stop it shorting. We find that disconnecting the bottom 2 strands gives you more tolerance to a bit of grass though.

It's a tricky one. You want them to have as much freedom as possible but you want to keep them safe. There probably is no right or wrong answer. When I was a kid, ours were just let out to roam. We lost the odd one or 2 to a fox but I think the fact that they were spread far and wide around the farm yard actually meant you didn't lose the lot in one go.

[JMB]

Ours are all free range.
We did consider fencing them in but I decided that , if a fox did appear,they'd have more chance of escaping with room to move.
The thought of a fox getting in a small enclosure they couldn't escape from seemed worse.
I think they are happier and healthier as free range.
Having said that, we've lost none to foxes in 4 years, so we're lucky. We did have one drown in a water trough though.
We have an automatic door that closes at bedtime so that reduces the risk in case we don't get home early enough in winter when it's dark.
Im not sure if ducks put themselves to bed?
J xxxxx

[devonlad]

I drive in and out of farms every day for work and just love the sight of chooks popping out of barns and clucking happily around the yard. 2 things stop us from free ranging however,
. one was that the chances of having anything resembling a veg or flower garden would disappear but secondly and more importantly was the amount of fox activity in the area. our close neighbour has lost 3 entire flocks totalling over 40 hens in the 5 years we have known him. he tends to dismiss it with a shrug accepting that if you free range then its possible. we are prob far too attached to our girls and I couldn't personally live with just leaving them to be picked off one by one. the run I built is huge, with trees and bushes we have planted. the area is so large that we have to mow it regularly. all the netting is double thickness and it is over 7 feet high with netting buried below ground. out of veg season we let them out in the veg patch while we're digging it over. whilst they love being out initially they soon head back to where they feel safe.   in 5 years we have never lost a hen to a fox (one cockerel was grabbed on the only occasion we forgot they were out in the orchard one evening - that's all it took). it is a matter of great pride that we keep them so safe. the downside is that they live forever and we then have to face the unpleasant chance of having to cull or else we would have lots of hens and no eggs. I think choice to free range is either based on local fox activity or simply being resigned to the fact that free range chickens get predated.

[HesterF]

Agree with the above - if you free range, you accept the risk and if the worst happens, don't blame the fox! My ducks will put themselves to bed at night but not until after dark. We have a similar set up to Devonlad but in our second run I thought three strands of barbed wire would be OK as the top overhang. Apparently not - we lost three ducks that were out at night a couple of weeks ago. So now we have to put a netting overhang around the top and keep our fingers crossed. I reckon my stock (currently at least) values into four figures (the geese alone sell for £50 each and I've got 12 of them at the moment) and I have no desire to go to the ends of the UK to replace them all so Fort Knox is my aim. If I had ex-batts which were just a few pounds, I'd be more blasé, I imagine.

[Stereo]

I have a half plan to put my older hens up in our woods to live out their lives. It would be a lovely place for a chicken but again, risk of fox would be high. I figured some kind of high roosting platform. When you have a lot of birds, you simply can't afford to keep them into their dotage so you have to either give them to someone who can or be prepared to cull. I wonder if the woods idea would be better? Possibly a more gruesome death but they would get to take their chances and would have a damn good time doing it. Might also keep the fox away from our more productive birds? Sounds harsh but I wonder.

[ladyK]

Our hens free range entirely, and they do cover a lot of ground! They certainly look like they are having a blast of it.
They are shut in after dark, and thankfully we had no fox problems so far (2 years) but I realise this could happen any time. We did have a mink kill my best hen a few months ago which was devastating but at least the others took themselves to safety, and there was no revisit since. I do like to think that free ranging chickens will have more of a chance to move to safety if attacked by a fox than if confined in a run.

I do 'confine' all my vegetables, rather than confine the chickens, and as the hens have so much space to roam they will no try to get into anything that's just a bit more protected by a net = harder to get to. I find they only damage very young plants anyway.

[Fleecewife]

Bekka, having just had nearly all my free range hens taken by a fox in broad daylight, heads ripped off, bodies torn to shreds and left dumped around, I don't think that just turning your hens out without careful assessment of the possibilities and planning is good.  They will still need to be shut in at night and will happily return to their house.  Ducks don't always put themselves to bed at night though.

I suppose the answer depends totally on your local situation, in particular the local fox population.  Round here the neighbour's lads used to shoot foxes so we had very few, although they always spread to fill a vacuum so freedom didn't last long.  Now the lads have grown and aren't so interested in killing, so we have more foxes, badgers too, stoats, no wild mink though, but all predators of poultry.



Stereo,

The danger time for hens out at night isn't only during the night, so even if they sleep in the trees they will be down at dawn and dusk, which are traditionally the time the fox comes.  Once one fox has found them they will never stop until all are gone.  Not an ideal way to cull your older birds.
If hens have been used to being caged or confined all their lives, banishing them to the woods to fend for themselves does seem harsh, because they won't have a clue what to do. Also, all those carcasses will simply be supporting the local fox population.  Better in my view to cull humanely and find a use for the meat.

[lord flynn]

do the woods belong to you Stereo? I do think its quite a harsh way of dealing with them tbh but quite apart from that, if the woods arent actually yours it might fall under the animal abandonment law-so be careful who you tell if you decide to do it.

Its hard culling older hens, I am quite soft on mine-they've provided eggs and entertainment etc. But the winter up here is very hard and two of them are a little slower than the others to get off their perches, get food, get the best spot to shelter. So they'll get a few weeks in the sun and then thats it-before I put the pullets out there. I'll not eat them. Saying that, a couple of older hens in the flock can be useful to show the younger ones what to do.

Fleecewife-there's been a couple of people on FB advertising pest control on poultry pages. I might be able to get details for you if interested.

[Stereo]

Yes, it's ours. I wouldn't be totally abandoning them as in not feeding them. I would still provide feed, water and shelter etc. There used to be a pheasant pen in there which was pretty huge so maybe I could re-instate that. I just figured they would find an awful lot of their food on the woodland floor. I guess you are right though. Once a fox has had one, he's not going to stop.

[bekka@dh]

Thank you for all of your thoughts.
I wasn't for a second suggesting to leave them to their own devices! We spent hours building a good house for them so they would be locked in safe at night.
I think we will stick to the arrangement that we have - loose when we are around and confined to the large run when we are not.

Thank you all!

[Fleecewife]

.

Fleecewife-there's been a couple of people on FB advertising pest control on poultry pages. I might be able to get details for you if interested.

Hi Lord Flynn

Thanks for the offer, but the foxes don't live on our land.  Each neighbour has a different view about foxes - the one on 3 sides won't allow killing on his place unless it's pigeons when he's just sown cereals;  another neighbour used to shoot anything that moved whether it was legal or not until his guns were taken away (he has them back but is greatly cowed by the experience so doesn't strut around wielding his weapons any more); a third neighbour is the one with the boys who used to do the fox hunting before.  So I couldn't ask any of them to let me get someone to control foxes on their land.
The fox which killed most of our flock hasn't been back  yet, and that's a month ago now, so I think we just have to be vigilant.  My catapult should arrive tomorrow - I already have the ammo    It certainly wouldn't kill a fox, but it might give it a sting on the bum so it thinks twice about coming back.