Author Topic: Do I need permission for field shelter/loose boxes? (Read 17821 times)

laurelrus · « **on:** May 06, 2014, 10:50:03 am »

Hi, This is my first post as after years of dreaming about it we have just moved house and have got a 4.7 acre field which we want to keep some livestock on.
It was previously used for sheep. We want to get a field shelter and a couple of loose boxes - do we need planning permission for these?
I just phoned the council but have to put my question in writing and I have a feeling it'll take a while to get an answer, meanwhile we've bought two pygmy goats and 3 lambs which are coming in 6 weeks!
I think from what I've read that as long as they are mobile i.e. on skids that we'll be ok but I don't want to make an expensive mistake.
Also I've assumed that it's ok to put a goat house and pig house on the land? I'm getting nervous now as I've been looking online and it's hard to see a clear answer.
Thanks very much to anyone who can help!

devonlad · « **Reply #1 on:** May 06, 2014, 11:41:52 am »

My understanding is that provided:

No preparation of the ground is required prior to the erection of a mobile field shelter, there is no physical attachment to the ground, there are no services connected, It is not permanently sited and It is designed to be moved then planning permission is not required. HOWEVER, not all planning offices respond with consistency and the above list leaves plenty of room for manoeuvre and as a result it ends up feeling fairly messy. when we first moved here I was keen to erect a shelter which could double as a hay store and goat shed. I approached the local council to try and get clarity. there response was to be on the safe side and apply for permission. in the end I couldn't face the hassle and instead we adapted our existing garage and I have built a couple of very small field shelters. I also understand that depending where you are you may also face the possibility of being asked to account for change of use of land- if putting up a shelter represents a change of use

henchard · « **Reply #2 on:** May 06, 2014, 11:47:46 am »

See

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/councils-target-field-shelters-in-new-planning-crackdown/

Fleecewife · « **Reply #3 on:** May 06, 2014, 11:55:32 am »

It definitely varies from council to council. We are an agricultural holding so for most things we don't need PP, but because of a very tricky neighbour who puts in complaints about anything that anyone within a several mile radius does, we were advised to apply for Approval (rather than PP - the difference is that Approval doesn't take long and doesn't cost much, nor do you require full drawings (here anyway)
When we first came to live here, we didn't need permission or approval for anything unless to do with the house. Now all has changed.
When the chappie came from the council to view where we intended to put up our shed (it's a bit bigger than many sheds

) he signed off without a murmur, and said "whilst I'm here, is there anything else you want to do?" So I mentioned we still needed a handful more sheep shelters, he glanced at what we already have and gave his approval immediately (our shelters are sturdy, with a straining post at each corner, so definitely not mobile).

So councils can be helpful, but I know from others experiences that they can also be bolshie. Good luck with navigating the planning laws.

pigalicious · « **Reply #4 on:** May 06, 2014, 04:36:59 pm »

Quote

I agree with devonlad's interpretation and also agree that planning policy and planning officers opinion vary from district to district! The best thing to do is to arrange an onsite meeting with the planning officer before you do anything (they like to be included from the start). mobile shelters need to be just that, mobile, and should be moved around your holding. The planning officer will want to know that the shelter will in fact be moved around! You could say you intend to "strip graze" your paddock and move the shelter accordingly.

If you have not already, you will need to register your holding and get a holding number.

P

laurelrus · « **Reply #5 on:** May 06, 2014, 05:42:07 pm »

Thanks very much for the advice, it's really helpful. I think we better wait till we hear back from the planning department before we buy a field shelter or loose boxes!

laurelrus · « **Reply #6 on:** May 06, 2014, 05:44:33 pm »

We have got a CPH number, is that all we need to bring our first animals onto our land? We've bought a couple of pygmy goats and 3 lambs which are coming in about 6 weeks. I really want to do everything properly so we don't run into trouble so I got the CPH number first. Does that mean we're a registered smallholding or is there something else we have to do? Thanks again

Bramblecot · « **Reply #7 on:** May 06, 2014, 06:52:24 pm »

You need to get a flock number for your sheep

and send off the movement form. You will need to keep a record of any movements on and off your land andkeep a 'flock register'. When I got mine it was from the local trading standards at the Council and they sent me a flock book but I think it may have changed. Hopefully, someone will be along soon to advise on the up to date situation

.
Good luck with all your ventures - it's really exciting when you start

.

devonlad · « **Reply #8 on:** May 06, 2014, 07:13:59 pm »

welcome to TAS btw.

ladyK · « **Reply #9 on:** May 06, 2014, 09:12:57 pm »

My understanding is that you have to have a CPH number before any livestock arrives, but you can get the flock/herd number (depending on the type of stock) after the animals arrive on your land.
This is what I did last summer, got a CPH number first, and a flock number after my sheep arrived - I had no complaints from Defra when I called up about the flock number that I was doing anything wrong.

The H&H article about the 'field shelter crackdown' is interesting - they refer to the 2001 court case precedent but note that these days councils say 'this is not enough. I find this odd - 'not enough' to stop them threatening you with action or not enough for a case to stand up in court?
The court case is explained in quite some detail here: http://blog.primestables.co.uk/horse-shelter
Based on this I went ahead last year and just put a mobile shelter on my field. So far so good.

laurelrus · « **Reply #10 on:** May 07, 2014, 09:01:40 am »

Thanks very much, this is all very helpful.
It is really exciting having finally made the move and about to start our smallholding, but it's quite daunting as well. I know we have a steep learning curve ahead!
I'm glad I found this forum as I think it will be really good to be amongst others who have been where we are, right at the start of our venture!

pigalicious · « **Reply #11 on:** May 07, 2014, 09:41:18 am »

It appears that in findings of the 2001 case referred to by LadyK, it may in some circumstances be acceptable to planners that horses use mobile field shelters on agricultural land. In this case it went to appeal and independent inspector was engaged. He concluded;

the land was agricultural.

annual cropping occurred

no leisure riding was carried out on holding

I wonder how the case would have concluded had the inspector seen, jumps set up, trotting poles or a worn out ring of grass (lunging circle)?

However I digress, this case is about agricultural animals on an agricultural holding so there should be nothing to worry about.
P

bazzais · « **Reply #12 on:** May 13, 2014, 01:41:09 am »

Never inform the council or planning department for anything like this - they dont know what they are doing except when they have their teeth into something, when they think they know what they are doing.

You have animals - you want to make them comfy and secure - you build shelter if you need it. Just dont take the mickey and build a shelter for your pet pony.

The council will know that anything moveable is not technically a building, but their are bylaws that vary from council to council that could get a 'portable' vehicle removed - but they wont bother you normally if you dont bother them.

Stick em up, look after your livestock, keep safe not seen.