Agri Vehicles Insurance from Greenlands

Author Topic: Sheepdogs  (Read 12854 times)

Foobar

  • Joined Mar 2012
  • South Wales
Re: Sheepdogs
« Reply #30 on: April 29, 2014, 10:30:57 am »
Can you get part-trained young dogs that are also house trained?


I'm thinking about getting a dog but it'll be the only dog in the house and it'll be a part time worker and part time pet so I'll need it house trained.  I'm guessing most working dogs are kennelled outside?

zwartbles

  • Joined Sep 2011
Re: Sheepdogs
« Reply #31 on: April 29, 2014, 11:03:14 am »
"black roof to the mouth" is traditionally a guide. Mine has a black rear end as well where I put a rocket up it's bum from time to time  :excited:

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: Sheepdogs
« Reply #32 on: April 29, 2014, 12:13:20 pm »
Yes, typically working dogs are kennelled.  TBH, they're likely to be too soft if kept in the house!  Skip & Dot love to come in for a treat, but 10 minutes or so is usually enough, then they're panting their heads off and overheating.

Some learn to be clean in the house pretty quick - just put them out if they look like they're about to pee, and don't bring them back in again that day; they're collies so they get it after a couple of expulsions! - and some don't.

When I brought Skip home I let him choose.  He's always loved to come into the house to be with everyone, and for some fuss, and after a long hard day (and/or, when he and Ted were first working together, a long hard fight ::)), but just for 20 minutes or so, then he's too hot.  And he's always chosen to sleep in his kennel, even when he had a kennel in the garden and we left the back door open.

Edited to say that some working dogs will have been house-trained - some breeders socialise them with the family, so they will have learned young, even if they're used to sleeping outside. 
« Last Edit: April 29, 2014, 12:18:54 pm by SallyintNorth »
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

in the hills

  • Joined Feb 2012
Re: Sheepdogs
« Reply #33 on: April 29, 2014, 12:40:27 pm »
Regards house training. We have had lots of retired gundogs. They have lived exclusively in kennels and then we had them as house dogs. They all house trained very quickly .... even the oldies. Just trained them the same way that you would house train any puppy. Take out frequently, stay with them til business done and then lots of praise. Watch in the house, you can tell if they need to go ... out you go with them. If they did have an accident and to be honest I can't remember them having any, then try to catch them in the act. As trained dogs they should know a 'no' command. So use that and take out. Ours went from complete kennel dogs to complete house dogs. Never any problems. Sure house training wouldn't be a real issue but the suitability of 'some' older collies to living full time in the house I'm not so sure about. Think you would have to look at temperament very carefully. Been looking after neighbours 20 collies for few weeks. Some of them I would be wary of taking as house dogs.

Foobar

  • Joined Mar 2012
  • South Wales
Re: Sheepdogs
« Reply #34 on: April 29, 2014, 12:49:46 pm »
Thanks both, that is useful info.


Good temperament would be essential, it'd have to get along with our ferret, the cat and the chickens, i.e. safe to be left alone with them. Oh and my nieces :).

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: Sheepdogs
« Reply #35 on: April 29, 2014, 01:01:20 pm »
With working collies you will need to make sure the nieces respect the dog(s) and its/their boundaries.  Collies have an instinctual lightening snap.  If you want a dog that would never ever ever snap at a child under any amount of provocation, don't get a collie.

And on that vein... I wish tourists didn't feel compelled to approach my working collies  :rant:.  Bad enough if the dogs are on the ground, but some of them will approach a dog on the back of the quad bike.   :rant: :rant:  It really makes me seethe - which I have to conceal, as if the dogs picked up that vibe, I'd have a problem for sure!

Honestly - you wouldn't approach a dog in a car with an open window, so why do people think it's safe or sensible to approach a collie on the back of a quad bike?!!   >:(   If the dog doesn't want the attention (and most such people seem completely unable to read collie body language  ::)), the dog has only two options.  1.  Bite.  2.  Run away.  Mine so far have always taken the latter option - but most often when this happens I am stopped at a gate while I open or close it.  So now I have my collie dog on the road, scared and running away and at risk of being hit by a car and/or causing an accident.

Sorry, must be the sleep deprivation making me even more of a grumpy old woman than usual. 
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

plumseverywhere

  • Joined Apr 2013
  • Worcestershire
    • Its Baaath Time
    • Facebook
Re: Sheepdogs
« Reply #36 on: April 29, 2014, 01:21:52 pm »
With working collies you will need to make sure the nieces respect the dog(s) and its/their boundaries.  Collies have an instinctual lightening snap.  If you want a dog that would never ever ever snap at a child under any amount of provocation, don't get a collie.

And on that vein... I wish tourists didn't feel compelled to approach my working collies  :rant:.  Bad enough if the dogs are on the ground, but some of them will approach a dog on the back of the quad bike.   :rant: :rant:  It really makes me seethe - which I have to conceal, as if the dogs picked up that vibe, I'd have a problem for sure!

Honestly - you wouldn't approach a dog in a car with an open window, so why do people think it's safe or sensible to approach a collie on the back of a quad bike?!!   >:(   If the dog doesn't want the attention (and most such people seem completely unable to read collie body language  ::)), the dog has only two options.  1.  Bite.  2.  Run away.  Mine so far have always taken the latter option - but most often when this happens I am stopped at a gate while I open or close it.  So now I have my collie dog on the road, scared and running away and at risk of being hit by a car and/or causing an accident.

Sorry, must be the sleep deprivation making me even more of a grumpy old woman than usual.

I can sympathise with you. I think a lot of people just don't have common sense when it comes to dogs, they don't (or are unable to ) 'think dog' - most likely if they are not dog owners.
I've always brought my children up to ask owners first before approaching a dog, or to just ignore strangers dogs preferably.  Next door has a lurcher and a spaniel, both friendly but i've told the children that they are never to stroke them over the fence as the dog is in its own territory.

the border collie book that was recommended to me by several people on this site is invaluable for teaching potential owners about dogs and children etc. Barbara sykes book it is.  Murphy has his own space and if he goes in there then no-one is to bother him.  There's also some good pics online which show dog body language (you know, the ones where someone daft adult has let their child crawl all over a dog and the dog is panting, whites of eyes showing an dgenerally looking hacked off) 
Smallholding in Worcestershire, making goats milk soap for www.itsbaaathtime.com and mum to 4 girls,  goats, sheep, chickens, dog, cat and garden snails...

Castle Farm

  • Joined Nov 2008
  • Hereford/Powys Border. near Hay-on-Wye
    • castlefarmeggs
Re: Sheepdogs
« Reply #37 on: April 29, 2014, 04:19:05 pm »
A working Collie needs a waterproof dry run to live in, so that you know where it is when your going out or leaving the dog unattended.


The kennel is their place and they will be better off in a space of their own rather than sharing your home and space.
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Foobar

  • Joined Mar 2012
  • South Wales
Re: Sheepdogs
« Reply #38 on: April 29, 2014, 04:35:30 pm »
A working Collie needs a waterproof dry run to live in, so that you know where it is when your going out or leaving the dog unattended.


The kennel is their place and they will be better off in a space of their own rather than sharing your home and space.


Even if they are on their lonesome?  I thought as they are a pack animal they would prefer company.  It can have it's own "space" in the house.

in the hills

  • Joined Feb 2012
Re: Sheepdogs
« Reply #39 on: April 29, 2014, 05:07:03 pm »
Foobar, we had a working collie pup for a while. Sadly not with us now  :'(. Wasn't to be healthwise so don't know for certain how it would have worked out in the end. But ...... if I am honest that particular pup was not well suited to life in the house. We have children but they are older and are wise around dogs, including around collies. She did growl and snap at them and growled at us. I don't believe she was aggressive as such but she did not want and couldn't cope with life in a family home .... even with her own space. She didn't want even a hand dropped on her if she wasn't in the mood and didn't always give clear messages about when she wanted contact and when she didn't. We were going to work her and I have a neighbour with 50 years experience who was going to help me. As a dog to work and to be a house dog , although we loved her, she wasn't great. Her breeder told us that her grandfather had a similar temperament in that even in the yard he was 'distant' and didn't want human contact. He was however the best trial dog he had owned. (didn't tell us about temperament until we talked about her character with him). We did meet mum and dad and they seemed fine but so did our pup when she was outdoors. Confined in the house and the pressures that go with it was a different story.

When we lost her my neighbour told me to get another, that we had been unlucky in terms of her temperament. Well maybe but wouldn't personally have another collie as a house dog. I'm not saying I would never have a collie again but it would be out in kennels for at least part of the time (probably , yes, with canine company) and wouldn't have a dog kept in that way unless I had more land and more sheep ... more work to keep that dog stimulated. I would have them indoors but for short periods when they wanted it.

We have a working line lab now and yes full of energy and yes needs to be stimulated.  Having great fun training her but she can live as a house dog very happily.

Possibly we were unlucky but just thought I would share in case it helps anyone else. I think especially true if taking on an older collie so I can understand CF's post. Sure it has worked out for many folk though  :).

Porterlauren

  • Joined Apr 2014
Re: Sheepdogs
« Reply #40 on: April 29, 2014, 10:07:53 pm »
We've had a range of working dogs, including collies both living in and out of the house. I agree that a lot of dogs like their own space and also seem to over heat quite easily, so a kennel is the best bet. However, some seen to live in with no problems, and it doesn't seem to effect their working ability one bit. In fact with some dogs, i've found the  greater amount of time living in the dogs company has formed a stronger bond, of course you can have equally as strong bonds with kennelled dogs.

I also like having a collie / collie bred lurcher, around the house, as they make fantastic guard dogs. As said, they can be real sharp if needed.

Although there was one issue with a rambler, straying from the foot path and looking in one of the sheds, just having a wee peak at the quad etc. Well, you can imagine what the collie thought. Queue visit from the police.

AndynJ

  • Joined Sep 2010
  • uk
  • Says it as it is. don't like it don't look
Re: Sheepdogs
« Reply #41 on: April 30, 2014, 06:39:59 am »

Although there was one issue with a rambler, straying from the foot path and looking in one of the sheds, just having a wee peak at the quad etc. Well, you can imagine what the collie thought. Queue visit from the police.

Did the police say you were in the wrong ?

Ideation

  • Joined Apr 2014
Re: Sheepdogs
« Reply #42 on: July 21, 2014, 01:41:52 pm »
Police saw sense, dog now needs to be on a chain in the yard though.

Young Ed

  • Joined Apr 2014
Re: Sheepdogs
« Reply #43 on: July 22, 2014, 10:53:07 am »
they need the basics setting down first so that would include sit, stay, come, lye down then you can introduce the dog to some easy sheep that are calm and without any lambs either inside them or at foot. try herding the sheep yourself and a normal collie will soon see what you are doing and join in
but as said try and find someone who trains sheep dogs and spend some time with them and your pup
Cheers
Ed

plumseverywhere

  • Joined Apr 2013
  • Worcestershire
    • Its Baaath Time
    • Facebook
Re: Sheepdogs
« Reply #44 on: July 22, 2014, 11:32:40 am »
Not sure if anyone has mentioned the Andy Nickless dvd's? they are a good way to learn some basics. He also runs courses.  I enquired about our dog as hes so good already with the sheep (since we did the sheep safe course in malvern) and they've said he can go to a trial training day. 
Smallholding in Worcestershire, making goats milk soap for www.itsbaaathtime.com and mum to 4 girls,  goats, sheep, chickens, dog, cat and garden snails...

 

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