[Ideation]

Unfortunately that's how it goes sometime. When you have livestock, you will always have deadstock. . .

Heartbreaking, especially when you are lambing a small flock, but it's all part of keeping sheep.

With a small flock, of first timers, on your first time, i'd defiantly be lambing inside, it cuts down the variables and response time to issues dramatically.

We lamb around 600 ewes here, and they all drop inside, it makes life so much easier in many respects (and harder in others).

Used to just sleep in the shed.

[ScotsGirl]

Really sorry to hear this.  I had a bad start with my black welsh but they came good in the end.  I don't know how long you have had your ewes but I try and build a bond over winter when they are hungry. Start putting nuts in ground until you are dropping round your feet so they come close. Eventually get them to eat out bucket then grab a big handful and let them eat out your hand. Once they are comfortable round you they won't panic so much.


After my mixed start I brought them in for a few weeks then started bringing in at night and out in day. Depends on setup by I was able to create a run from field to shelter so one person rattled bucket and walked ahead, other person would shepherd them in. After a couple of days they were beating the head walker to the shelter! Now I just open gate, call them and let the leaders go and chase up the slackers. This way if something is lame, about to lamb or has lambed I can get them in, pen up and deal with. I always put first timers in a pen for a couple of days.


I now prefer to lamb outside but have them all bucket trained so I can lead into a big pen and leave them but can intervene if a problem.


Good luck with the rest.

[Dianabooth]

Oh dear! I'm really overwhelmed by the sympathy, shared experiences & sound advice given out in these replies  from everyone!  What a great forum!  You'll think I'm daft and soft but it actually bought a tear to my eye that I'm not alone and that others have experienced much the same things.

 I did tried to get on a lambing course but our local agricultural college no longer run the courses! 

I have printed all the replies in the post and will make a note of all the things you have pointed out.  Thanks so much to everyone for sharing their experiences and offering such excellent advise.   

[Foobar]

As you can't get on a course it would be worth your while asking any local farmers if you can just help out a bit with their lambing, they are usually very welcome for any free help, even for just a few hours here and there.  You can learn a lot even just from a small time spent with a big flock.

[Ideation]

Courses are great, but if not (or even instead of) see if a local farmer will let you shadow them during lambing, that way you get to see all of the different variables and how stuff can go tits up (and be turned around) in a real world environment. Also you may just end up with a local contact you can call for help!

Trust me though, you are not a lone, plenty of folk just jump in at the deep end without much knowledge. . . . and you usually lose more than your fair share in the first year - but as with any baptism of fire - it makes you learn quick!

[Hellybee]

Gutted for you Lovely 


I can't really add owt but this lambing lark is like a roller coaster, we lost 7 this time in the end, it's an emotional time, but like Sally says, you have to carry on, I keep a little place in my heart for the lost ones, but never lose sight of the fact that there are many others bouncing round the fields that need our attention more.  It's a steep learning curve, don't think I ll ever stop learning about them, being novices ourselves, it's fascinating and each time you lamb you learn more, you gain confidence, and I also think that joining another experienced shepherd at lambing time, is very valuable, and I'm sure there ll be many shepherds who would jump at the chance of some help !  We would ha!


Big hug x

[SallyintNorth]

As you can't get on a course it would be worth your while asking any local farmers if you can just help out a bit with their lambing, they are usually very welcome for any free help, even for just a few hours here and there.  You can learn a lot even just from a small time spent with a big flock.

These farmers love to have eager slaves students at lambing time  .  But... just a few hours is a drain on the farmer; if you can do several days or half-days, or a couple of weekends, or even better, more than that, then you will get to the point of being genuinely useful and 'paying' for your tuition.  Not to mention, you'll learn way more by getting thoroughly immersed and being left alone to do jobs, etc.

[lesbri]

  Im a complete novice to sheep too and have had mixed year  (second year of lambing).  Only had 2 ewes to lamb this year, first ewe was found at dawn in the paddock with dead twins, both looked perfect, had been licked clean but very cold and dead. This ewe had a stillbirth last year too. Second ewe lambed a lovely ram lamb a week later by herself. So Im beating myself up too thinking I might have been able to save the twins if I had lambed inside, but thought it would be better for the ewes to lamb outside in their familiar paddock.

I guess we all live and learn but I think I will lamb inside next year and if the same ewe loses her lambs next year too, will call it a day with her.  I did find a lambing course to attend before I got my sheep but the reality with your own animals always seems so different to learning on someone else's animals!

Didnt mean to hijack your thread but just to say Ive learnt from this forum that everyone has difficulties to deal with and sometimes whatever decision you make wouldnt have changed the outcome. Hope the rest of your lambing goes better 

[mab]

Another novice here    [size=78%]I did lamb outdoors without major problems, despite my ewes determination to give birth in heavy rain - I suspect I've been very lucky - I didn't raddle the ram so I didn't know when to bring them in anyway.[/size]
[/size]
you do seem to have had an exceptional lot of bad luck though -   with the law of averages it should be better next time.

[SteveHants]

I agree with other posters that it sounds like something else was at play with your sheep - Toxo? It is well worth finding out, as you may have to vaccinate for it in coming years.


I would like to point out, however that outdoor laming with minimal interference is just that - either lamb inside, intensively or outside, extensively dont half-do one or the other.


If you continue to lamb outside (and I see no reason why not with hill breeds) then learn to leave them alone - I cannot stress that enough.


Lamb in a field with plenty of natural shelter, at a time of year when it is at least 10C in the daytime and you should be fine with the right sheep. Don't be tempted to bring them in because it is raining, for example when they are already under a hedge or curled up with mum, you'll just end stirring the lot up and make a bad job out of a good one. Bringing outdoor born, wet sheep indoors is just asking for disease, imo.


The more that I lamb out, the more fastidious I get about not stirring the ewes up. I creep round the edges like I was shooting rabbits or something, crook in hand, lube etc in my game bag and if I should see any laming and I simply have to watch, I do it through binoculars. I get really narked when I bring people round and they just march through the middle of the field and/or turn up in bright/loud clothing. If I am marking them up/tagging then causing general pandemonium by bowling through the middle of them means I wouldn't ever catch up with some.


If I were you, I would try and pinpoint your problem, either medical or genetic and then make a decision. As far as I am aware, Welsh Mountains damn well ought to lamb outside and any that don't (underlying medical issues aside) should be off down the road asap. When you bought your ewes, did you buy them off an outdoor lamber?


I remain convinced that lambing outdoors is a very successful way to breed sheep but it is fundamental that you start with the right sheep in the first place. For example... I am just coming to the end of my first mob of outdoor lambers (100 ewes). So far I have had 1 orphan and a couple of stillborns. Lambing at almost 180% (easycare x charollais) at a farm about 12 miles away from me. 

[Me]

Second that, outdoor lambing of wilder type sheep ceases to be "easy" the moment you interfere at all, even striding through them can cause problems. Inside and interfere or outside and leave alone, buy a telescope! 

[SallyintNorth]

I think some of this is the difference between farming and smallholding.  (I was told once that a key indicator was a farmer drove his sheep, a smallholder called hers .)

If you are keeping sheep on a farm scale, you can do the 'keep away, don't intervene in order to save every possible lamb' thing, recognising that with this kind of system, overall you get a better outcome by managing them this way.

When you have a handful of sheep, every lamb is precious, and it's pretty much impossible to walk away if there's a risk to one of them.

Ask me how I know 

[Ladygrey]

All of my lambs are very precious to me, however I do not have any indoor facilities or barns

I have a workshop which can take 3 sheep at a time, so I put three sheep inside (charmoise) and the rest had to lamb outside, I have no choice, so therefore I have to accept that some of my sheep I cannot catch, yes I can call my sheep to move them the majority of the time but even though lots are tame there is no way I can move them if they dont want to come, this doesnt mean I dont care for them or think any of them arent precious to me.

So the breed I have is important to me, they have to be able to lamb un aided and outside on their own, and the lambs have to be born running and get up and drink as soon as possible,  I do a night check but its best not to disturb them, they get on and lamb on their own, If I was to keep loads of sheep that needed assistance then I wouldnt be able to keep sheep... full stop

So in order to keep and love my sheep they have to be able to lamb outdoors on their own, if they cant I cant keep sheep, and I love my sheep and I love keeping them

[Foobar]

I agree with what Steve has said, even though I don't abide by all of it (I do use binoculars and I do leave them to lamb by themselves where possible, but I then bring them in for 24 hours once lambed).  I only have a dozen ewes and I like them all to be easy to manage and come when I call them, as I don't have a dog.  I use lambing as an opportunity to reinforce my connection with the ewes, and its also a handy time to check them over and trim feet etc.
If (when) I have more sheep I'll leave them all out, in fact I am trying to select on easy-care traits, i.e. not keeping ewes that need assistance etc.

Oh and I also bring them in as an excuse to cuddle the lambs  heehee

[Hellybee]

We keep them as close as possible now, we whip them in to a pen as soon as we can.  Don't like night checks on field, dont like to disturb them but  having them under lighting on the yard, has really been good, most tend to not even get up as you walk through them, love it!   7 losses/unviables.  1 ewe loss, one Caesarian. 1 mastitis.  On the positive side, Just over 140 bouncing  bundles of joy. 18 hour days.  Wouldn't have it any different