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Author Topic: farming/making money from sheep, any suggestions?  (Read 24808 times)

SteveHants

  • Joined Aug 2011
Re: farming/making money from sheep, any suggestions?
« Reply #45 on: April 16, 2014, 11:39:41 am »
Four aids to making money from farming sheep:
1.  Single Farm Payment.
2.  Inheriting land / completing your mortgage payments / being wealthy in the first place.
3.  Reduce animal welfare considerations.
4.  Move to a developing country with a good grazing climate and subsistence farming practices, buy lots of land and import good stock, establish a monopoly, employ armed guards, etc etc.  Oh yes, we did that in Africa some time back


1. I Don't get that
2. Er, no, I don't even own my house.
3. Depends on what you mean - I don't believe that outdoor lambing in spring does this, nor does having a decent culling policy. I believe my animals are just as well looked after as the next persons.
4. I'm in England


And yet, I make a living from sheep.

Womble

  • Joined Mar 2009
  • Stirlingshire, Central Scotland
Re: farming/making money from sheep, any suggestions?
« Reply #46 on: April 16, 2014, 11:47:12 am »
And yet, I make a living from sheep.

Sounds great - How ?!?  :)
"All fungi are edible. Some fungi are only edible once." -Terry Pratchett

Porterlauren

  • Joined Apr 2014
Re: farming/making money from sheep, any suggestions?
« Reply #47 on: April 16, 2014, 11:51:07 am »
Economy of scale I would guess?

I know some lads who run 7000 + ewes. . . . . and hardly own an acre.

SteveHants

  • Joined Aug 2011
Re: farming/making money from sheep, any suggestions?
« Reply #48 on: April 16, 2014, 02:53:34 pm »
And yet, I make a living from sheep.

Sounds great - How ?!?  :)


If I explained how again, I'd be in even more danger of sounding like a broken record..... :P

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: farming/making money from sheep, any suggestions?
« Reply #49 on: April 16, 2014, 03:51:13 pm »
And yet, I make a living from sheep.

Sounds great - How ?!?  :)


If I explained how again, I'd be in even more danger of sounding like a broken record..... :P

Give the poor man a link to one of your previous explanations, Steve.  Womble's coming new to sheep and I'm sure he'd get a lot out of reading up on your approach.
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

Ladygrey

  • Joined Jun 2012
  • Basingstoke
Re: farming/making money from sheep, any suggestions?
« Reply #50 on: April 16, 2014, 05:50:07 pm »
Four aids to making money from farming sheep:
1.  Single Farm Payment.
2.  Inheriting land / completing your mortgage payments / being wealthy in the first place.
3.  Reduce animal welfare considerations.
4.  Move to a developing country with a good grazing climate and subsistence farming practices, buy lots of land and import good stock, establish a monopoly, employ armed guards, etc etc.  Oh yes, we did that in Africa some time back

I dont receive single farm payment (any farmer who relies on single farm payment to make profit is not doing well IMO incase it is revoked etc)

I am not wealthy and I dont own my own house or land and what is a mortgage payment?  :eyelashes:

Reducing animal welfare considerations????? not sure what to say about this..... Im not sure how a reduction on animal welfare causing a reduction on animal output/production would save money....
Umm I live in england and have sowly built up my massive flock of 20 something over the last few years by only keeping the very best and selling the rest, I dont have armed guards...(but I wouldnt say no  :eyelashes: )

I hope you can figure out a way to keep sheep with profit :) it is easyer done than a few people make out, basically keep the best and east the rest  :thumbsup:

Womble

  • Joined Mar 2009
  • Stirlingshire, Central Scotland
Re: farming/making money from sheep, any suggestions?
« Reply #51 on: April 16, 2014, 05:54:06 pm »
Give the poor man a link to one of your previous explanations, Steve.  Womble's coming new to sheep and I'm sure he'd get a lot out of reading up on your approach.

Yes, just trying to learn!
 
I hope what you're doing is more profitable for you than the road we've started down. When our neighbour saw our new Manx Loaghtans, he asked if we'd be having a leg each for Christmas!  ;D
"All fungi are edible. Some fungi are only edible once." -Terry Pratchett

Tim W

  • Joined Aug 2013
Re: farming/making money from sheep, any suggestions?
« Reply #52 on: April 16, 2014, 06:03:00 pm »
Tim's 4 aids to making a profit from sheep farming :)

1) Approach it as a business
2) Concentrate on profit---kg lamb sold
3) Get rid of any unprofitable traits (wool/lameness/poor mothering ability--and at the same time increase welfare implications)
4) Put as much time into marketing/research/planning as you put into your sheep

SteveHants

  • Joined Aug 2011
Re: farming/making money from sheep, any suggestions?
« Reply #53 on: April 16, 2014, 07:20:13 pm »
Give the poor man a link to one of your previous explanations, Steve.  Womble's coming new to sheep and I'm sure he'd get a lot out of reading up on your approach.

Yes, just trying to learn!
 
I hope what you're doing is more profitable for you than the road we've started down. When our neighbour saw our new Manx Loaghtans, he asked if we'd be having a leg each for Christmas!  ;D


Tim has explained it more concisely than me, but I will do my best:


Firstly, you need enough sheep. I think that in order to pay the bills (ie take home something approaching the national average wage), you wouldn't want less than 300 sheep, more if possible. Rent grazing and don't overstock, its better to understock and have an abundance of grass because if you are going to be profitable you won't be buying concentrates, your sheep will be eating grass. It is hard to find your first block of grazing, but persevere, once you have one or two good lots, and build up your reputation, people will come looking for you.


Then, you need the right sheep. Buy sheep from people doing what you want to do, preferably on harder ground. I like woolshedders, because I can never see wool making money, but the Romney boys assure me it does. Choose breeders that cull for everything - you want a healthy happy flock that you don't need to keep poking. Plenty are now breeding for worm resistance (On my main block, I think I have wormed my ewes once in the last two years) and worm to FECs - dont waste money buying wormer when you don't have to.


Cull ruthlessly - you are natural selection. A problematic ewe is losing you money and also, its genetics are going to have a negative effect on the welfare of your flock. Anything that has a genetic component should be culled for.  Cull ewes make decent money, so you aren't losing that much. Think of it like this: your crop of replacement lambs are vying for a place in the flock, allow them the chance to prove themselves by culling poor-performing ewes.


You will by necessity be lambing outside, so your supplier of maternal sheep needs to be doing that too. It became very apparent to me very quickly that to sell breeding stock you need to build up a reputation and that aint going to happen overnight, so to start with this aim is foolish - it will happen in time (this also goes for pedigree sheep, it doesn't matter WHO you bought them off, you trade on your reputation). Therefore, the logical solution for me was to produce fat lambs as the meat buyers tend to care less about who you are and look more at the lambs in the pen (if you are on upland you might want to produce stores instead). Therefore I would be breeding my own replacements and slaughter lambs, so I would need a terminal sire. Terminal sire producers must think like you and have an interest in genetics. It is no good buying a top pedigree suffolk and trying to lamb his big-headed, dopey offspring outside. Do your research, you have plenty of choices of terminal sire (NZ Suffolk/Texel, Some UK ones (Baber), Meatlinc, some Charolais..) Find out what the buyers like if you will be selling at market.


Focus on the bottom line - turnover is vanity. Know your cost of production, make decisions based on sound business logic rather than sentiment. I like to record the performance of my ewes so I know how much money each has made me. Remember your margin - it is better to sell a lamb that has cost you £15 to produce for £60 than one that has cost you £60 to produce for £90, even though the £90 lamb might top the market and make you feel good about yourself.




I hope this is enough information to be going on with....

Porterlauren

  • Joined Apr 2014
Re: farming/making money from sheep, any suggestions?
« Reply #54 on: April 16, 2014, 07:50:35 pm »
Steve mate . . . . I think I love you already.

Take heed folks . . . . that man just described the difference between sheep 'keeping' and sheep 'farming'.

 :thumbsup:

The thing is, it's easy enough to run a small holding, you don't need much prior skill, you can learn as you go and your mistakes rarely affect your real life. Productivity is often way down the list, after lifestyle, enjoyment and sentiment.

But to run a farming operation like that . . . . you've got to know your stuff.

P.S This is Porterlaurens uglier other half  :innocent:

devonlad

  • Joined Nov 2012
  • Nr Crediton in Devon
Re: farming/making money from sheep, any suggestions?
« Reply #55 on: April 16, 2014, 08:13:31 pm »
Another one of those great threads that goes in all sorts of fascinating directions. I think Porterlaurens (OH) last post distinguishing between sheep keeping and sheep farming has hit the nail on the head for me . As much as I might think otherwise I am too sentimental about my stock to make those important economic decisions that would increase the chance of actually making money from them. Having said that, both Tim and even more so Steve write so clearly about smallholding as a business that I cant help but  feel inspired to take that step onwards and do it for real.

Porterlauren

  • Joined Apr 2014
Re: farming/making money from sheep, any suggestions?
« Reply #56 on: April 16, 2014, 08:24:01 pm »
The thing is, what steve describes isn't small holding, it's farming commercially.

With most small holdings, they tend to seek a niche product, from what I've seen anyway.

With farming in its true commercial sense, its all about efficiency and economies of scale.

But there is a real blurry, grey area where the two meet. And sometimes that works and sometimes its a problem, i.e with someone trying to run a large scale operation with a small holding mentality, or someone trying to run a small holding with a commercial approach.

Me

  • Joined Feb 2014
  • Wild West
Re: farming/making money from sheep, any suggestions?
« Reply #57 on: April 16, 2014, 08:29:44 pm »
best of all a vet?? This person does have a serious sense of humour!!  :thumbsup: (you were joking right?)

SteveHants

  • Joined Aug 2011
Re: farming/making money from sheep, any suggestions?
« Reply #58 on: April 16, 2014, 08:50:06 pm »
The thing is, what steve describes isn't small holding, it's farming commercially.

With most small holdings, they tend to seek a niche product, from what I've seen anyway.

With farming in its true commercial sense, its all about efficiency and economies of scale.

But there is a real blurry, grey area where the two meet. And sometimes that works and sometimes its a problem, i.e with someone trying to run a large scale operation with a small holding mentality, or someone trying to run a small holding with a commercial approach.


I started off with 15 wilts horn ewes and a ram - I had fully intended to produce on a small scale for farmer's markets etc, my background was in running a small trout farm who had a smokery etc and who made enough to keep the boss and his farm manager (me) in wages. The key was still margin and this was achieved in that case by adding value. I never did explore that option with my sheep in the end, but I don't doubt it could be done, mostly because I like not standing on markets all weekend, but also because I was quickly offered 130ac grazing to occupy my time.


I ran my small flock along the same lines as my commercial one - mostly becauseI was employed at the time and couldn't afford to be messing about, I needed sheep that got on with the job.

firther

  • Joined Mar 2013
  • holmfirth, west yorkshire
Re: farming/making money from sheep, any suggestions?
« Reply #59 on: April 16, 2014, 08:55:55 pm »
steve and tim talk a lot of sense, like reading there views  :thumbsup:

 

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