Agri Vehicles Insurance from Greenlands

Author Topic: farming/making money from sheep, any suggestions?  (Read 24685 times)

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: farming/making money from sheep, any suggestions?
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2014, 02:38:14 pm »
sokel reared calves for the first time not so long ago - why not drop him a PM and ask him to drop by and share his experience.

I'm lucky, in that BH is a lifelong beef farmer, so I have loads of expertise on tap.  And as we're a running farm, I can use all the buildings, equipment, cake, forage, bedding etc, that's already here.  So whilst I am very happy to share my experience, I am not starting from the same place you would be.
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

benkt

  • Joined Apr 2010
  • Cambridgeshire
    • Hempsals Community Farm
Re: farming/making money from sheep, any suggestions?
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2014, 09:36:06 am »
Where is are your potential customers? Do you have a good road frontage for a small shop, or a nearby town that you could try to sell to? Where is the nearest Waitrose?

I think a diverse holding can be easier to make a business out of for a smallholder. The kind of person who will pay a premium rate for half of a rare-breed pig will also usually be willing to pay for a whole lamb or eighth of a cow. If you specialise to just sheep, then you have the benefit of only needing one set of equipment and medicines, but you'll need to find five times as many customers as hardly anyone buys more than one lamb a year!

The butcher we use has a similar acreage to you and rents a little extra grazing as required. he breeds and rears sheep, cattle and pigs. He takes one trailer full to the abattoir every week, collects and then butchers the meat in a small building on his farm. The 'shop' then opens every Friday and Saturday selling whatever has been done that week, usually pork and either lamb or beef. He's on the edge of a village and has an active email list for people to let people know what is available. Seems to be working for him!


Fowgill Farm

  • Joined Feb 2009
Re: farming/making money from sheep, any suggestions?
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2014, 10:10:17 am »
Where abouts in the country are you.  If it is a horsey area, liveries are the way to bring in a decent income.
Don't even go there a lot of horse people are a pain in the butt and the horses will trash your ground if the weathers bad, believe me i know ::)
Mandy :pig:
ps before all you horsey people rant i said a lot not ALL! :-J

Womble

  • Joined Mar 2009
  • Stirlingshire, Central Scotland
Re: farming/making money from sheep, any suggestions?
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2014, 10:25:17 am »
If they'll pay handsomely to trash your land though, it's not all bad  :-J .

Seriously though, the key to making livery work is having the right facilities and a population base nearby.
 
A place near us offers liveries, but are a 10 mile round trip from the nearest town. So, to attract customers, they've had to price cheaper than all the nearer places, hence are not now making the profits they had anticipated.
"All fungi are edible. Some fungi are only edible once." -Terry Pratchett

devonlad

  • Joined Nov 2012
  • Nr Crediton in Devon
Re: farming/making money from sheep, any suggestions?
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2014, 10:33:58 am »
Not sure why I'm commenting cos we're rubbish at making it pay. I do know people who make a better fist of it than we do and it seems that key is direct selling to customers, and finding a way of "adding value". We have always struggled to get that premium for rare breed (pork and lamb) usually because we sell in the wrong places. mostly friends and family buy our meat, not because they were after outdoor reared, rare breed etc. etc. but because they know someone who produces meat and they expect to get it cheaper. those I know who make it pay better, either work as hard on selling it as raising it, farmers markets, food fairs etc. etc. and have established a brand identity, or process it on site, sausages, shepherds pies etc. A good friend of mine makes some kind of living from 40 acres and as well as direct selling Dexter beef, Wilts Horn lamb (and a range of associated products) and doing the rounds of markets etc. raises chickens for a regular income. We get stuck in that place between wanting to raise animals in a way that pleases us and is our hobby and making it "wipe its face". we'd be better off if we sold all the stock and just grew and sold hay- but for us that's not the point.

Ladygrey

  • Joined Jun 2012
  • Basingstoke
Re: farming/making money from sheep, any suggestions?
« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2014, 10:51:17 am »
Keeping inputs as low as possible, and getting the most out of the animals/land as you can are key

Do you really need to feed cake?
Do you need to lamb indoors?

Each lamb costs me £11.57 to rear up each year, this includes, fuel, rubber rings, worming, fly strike, etc etc, I add up everything down to the last 0.001 of a penny

So if a ewe has 1.8 lambs then 11.57 x 1.8 = £20.83 is put againts the cost of the ewe each year, plus the ewe costs me around £20 maybe (dont have time right now to look at my spreadsheet) so £40.83 per ewe per year to rear up 1.8 lambs.
This ewe prices includes flock replacements at 7%, two vet visits to the ewes and lambs per year (I budget for them but have yet to reach 2 vet visits per year) Hay over a certain amount of days per year, even £3 creep per lamb even though I dont creep them (incase of 6ft snow)
I budget for everything

I then budget that I will only get £75 for each lamb, in reality its more like £85-90 per lamb but anything above £75 is a bonus

It does not pay for me to sell boxed lamb at all, as after I take off my time, extra fuel, time off work, storage of the lamb for a little it doesnt pay

I just got a contract selling lamb straight to the butcher down the road :)

But I think budgeting for every single possible thing that you may need to buy even if you dont buy it and then add in the minimum possible price for lambs, and then if that doesnt work I think it could never work.

This year I budgeted for 4 kilos of hay per sheep per day from november through to april, however I only started feeding hay in december and stopped in march, also I got the hay at a much cheaper price this year than I budgeted for, so my spreadsheet is now smiling at me :)

Goodluck!!

Me

  • Joined Feb 2014
  • Wild West
Re: farming/making money from sheep, any suggestions?
« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2014, 11:18:13 am »
ps before all you horsey people rant i said a lot not ALL! :-J

ALL...

trish.farm

  • Joined Feb 2014
  • hampshire
Re: farming/making money from sheep, any suggestions?
« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2014, 12:09:07 pm »
ps before all you horsey people rant i said a lot not ALL! :-J

ALL...

Totally agree with you, we have over 60 horses on our farm, they are a doddle to look after, but along with the horses come 60 owners!!!!  I have learned to be very hard, very thick skinned and lay down the rules and boundaries. 

devonlad

  • Joined Nov 2012
  • Nr Crediton in Devon
Re: farming/making money from sheep, any suggestions?
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2014, 01:31:45 pm »
Where abouts in the country are you.  If it is a horsey area, liveries are the way to bring in a decent income.
Don't even go there a lot of horse people are a pain in the butt and the horses will trash your ground if the weathers bad, believe me i know ::)
Mandy :pig:
ps before all you horsey people rant i said a lot not ALL! :-J

Yee ha chance to knock the horsey people. When we rent a bit of grazing for our sheep we thinkourselves llucky if there's a fence. A few years ago my sister in law approached us re putting her special neddy up at ours. The list of demands became so extensive that I could only but ask if she'd like me to ride him too. At which point she went elsewhere. Currently she's on her 3rd livery in less than 2 years. Apologies for any offence :innocent:

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: farming/making money from sheep, any suggestions?
« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2014, 02:45:05 pm »
LG, if you are costing replacements at 7%, does that mean you expect all your ewes to last 14 years???

We work on 3-4 crops as an average per ewe.  We mostly don't breed them as hoggs, so we need to keep or buy replacements at 20%-25%.  You may get more in smallholding scenario but I can't imagine anyone achieving 13 crops per ewe as an average!  Not even Herdwicks!
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

shygirl

  • Joined May 2013
Re: farming/making money from sheep, any suggestions?
« Reply #25 on: April 14, 2014, 03:00:38 pm »
LG that's really helpful   :thumbsup:

sally - do you mean you sell your ewes as 5/6 yr olds? are they sold as culls/mutton or something else?

Me

  • Joined Feb 2014
  • Wild West
Re: farming/making money from sheep, any suggestions?
« Reply #26 on: April 14, 2014, 03:30:20 pm »
Use the sheep as a cover for a subterrainean cannabis farm.  :thumbsup:

Ladygrey

  • Joined Jun 2012
  • Basingstoke
Re: farming/making money from sheep, any suggestions?
« Reply #27 on: April 14, 2014, 06:13:59 pm »
Sally I cost at replacing 7% of my current flock every year at my current flock size and average age, I currently have mostly young sheep so obviously if my cull rate was 20% then I would have to be sending away fit and healthy ewes

However I have a few shetland ewes that are 6-8 and are rearing singles and twins and are still fit and healthy with good udders and good teeth and they get no special treatment.

As my current flock consists of only 20 something then replacing 2 this year after replacing none last year seems about right  :thinking:

I didnt replace any last year but this year I have two on my list already due to feet and udders

As my flock grows my replacement percentage will probly also grow, this year I will have 30-32 ewes going to the tup and then my flock replacement will grow to 10%

Also if I only kept them for 3-4 lambings then that means my 2 year old charmoise ewe would already be on the list!!!!! and my two 4 year old charmoise would have gone long ago!!!!

Im pretty sure the average shetland can breed longer than 3-4 crops...

However nope my average isnt 13 crops as I havnt been in sheep that long (I would have been ten when I bought my first that means  :eyelashes: )

I will let you know when I have been in sheep that long  :)

SteveHants

  • Joined Aug 2011
Re: farming/making money from sheep, any suggestions?
« Reply #28 on: April 14, 2014, 07:09:16 pm »
Keeping inputs as low as possible, and getting the most out of the animals/land as you can are key

Do you really need to feed cake?
Do you need to lamb indoors?

Each lamb costs me £11.57 to rear up each year, this includes, fuel, rubber rings, worming, fly strike, etc etc, I add up everything down to the last 0.001 of a penny

So if a ewe has 1.8 lambs then 11.57 x 1.8 = £20.83 is put againts the cost of the ewe each year, plus the ewe costs me around £20 maybe (dont have time right now to look at my spreadsheet) so £40.83 per ewe per year to rear up 1.8 lambs.
This ewe prices includes flock replacements at 7%, two vet visits to the ewes and lambs per year (I budget for them but have yet to reach 2 vet visits per year) Hay over a certain amount of days per year, even £3 creep per lamb even though I dont creep them (incase of 6ft snow)
I budget for everything

I then budget that I will only get £75 for each lamb, in reality its more like £85-90 per lamb but anything above £75 is a bonus

It does not pay for me to sell boxed lamb at all, as after I take off my time, extra fuel, time off work, storage of the lamb for a little it doesnt pay

I just got a contract selling lamb straight to the butcher down the road :)

But I think budgeting for every single possible thing that you may need to buy even if you dont buy it and then add in the minimum possible price for lambs, and then if that doesnt work I think it could never work.

This year I budgeted for 4 kilos of hay per sheep per day from november through to april, however I only started feeding hay in december and stopped in march, also I got the hay at a much cheaper price this year than I budgeted for, so my spreadsheet is now smiling at me :)

Goodluck!!


Thats pretty good going - I reckon on a Terminal x fat lamb costing me approx £15-20 to produce (depending on when it is sent), but that does include all my insurances/fuel/depreciation etc on the Land Rover. I usually budget for getting £50/lamb and lambing at 150%, when in reality I have never ducked much below £70, even in late summer when I start to wean/sell, and lamb at about 175% (lambs reared - this is mostly because ewe lambs mated only get to keep one lamb).

Ladygrey

  • Joined Jun 2012
  • Basingstoke
Re: farming/making money from sheep, any suggestions?
« Reply #29 on: April 14, 2014, 07:39:05 pm »
Quote
Thats pretty good going - I reckon on a Terminal x fat lamb costing me approx £15-20 to produce (depending on when it is sent), but that does include all my insurances/fuel/depreciation etc on the Land Rover. I usually budget for getting £50/lamb and lambing at 150%, when in reality I have never ducked much below £70, even in late summer when I start to wean/sell, and lamb at about 175% (lambs reared - this is mostly because ewe lambs mated only get to keep one lamb).

Thanks steve

I really have been through all of my costings, I dont have insurance so I suppose thats off the list and my car isnt worth anything anyway so I have not put depreciation, and I suppose the biggest cost saver is that I have 25 acres of summer grazing and 80 acres of winter grazing and I dont pay rent for any of it apart from 4 acres, however I have made two different spreadsheets and in one of them I am paying full grazing rent for the year just incase.

I only worm the lambs once a year and I only flystrike once, some of ewes have never been wormed (I bought them from a farm which breeds for worm resistance and doesn't worm) and the rest are only wormed once a year.
Nothing gets fed and my hay prices are really really low as I buy off a farmer who is burning the hay anyway as its not good enough to sell, stocking densities are very low and I struggle with keeping the grass down and then I also get good money for the wool

So everything adds up :)

 

Forum sponsors

FibreHut Energy Helpline Thomson & Morgan Time for Paws Scottish Smallholder & Grower Festival Ark Farm Livestock Movement Service

© The Accidental Smallholder Ltd 2003-2024. All rights reserved.

Design by Furness Internet

Site developed by Champion IS