[daveh]

I am in the early stages (price agreed and solicitor informed) of buying a small farm of 14 acres in Northamptonshire. It is being used for sheep at the moment and I intend to move my Castlemilk Moorits there in due course. I would also like to keep three or four cows and have been thinking of which breed. There are two small barns which are capable of housing cattle.
 Shetlands have caught my fancy as being hardy, small-ish, being able to raise two calves and have a bit of milk left over for human consumption. And I like to keep rare breeds. The quote below is from the Shetland web site and I was wondering if there were other keepers who use and could comment on the weaning method of leaving the calf on until the next arrives.

Quote
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[/size]'During weaning there is an initial build-up of milk which can lead to mastitis. This can be relieved by milking a small amount from the cow. Some breeders choose not to wean and mastitis problems are said to be eliminated. The cows are left with their calves up to and following the birth of the next calf. The cows automatically stop feeding the older calf and look after the new. No problems have been reported. It is basically a question of what importance you attach to giving the udder a rest. Above all, the cow should not be allowed to lose too much condition, whichever option is taken.' End quote.[/color]
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[/size]Regards, David[/color]

[shygirl]

i weaned my SH cow 4 weeks before her due date so she had enough time to produce vital colostrum for the new calf.
however she is 4 weeks late atm and still no udder so i guess her scan wasnt as accurate as id hoped.
we weaned this way because after weaning her twice before the calf would go back and suckle even after 2 months apart. we didnt have enough to cattle to wean her longer without her being on her own for a very long time, and as she wasnt in poor condition it just seemed kinder to let her calf suckle even tho he was almost the size she was. they were both happy and in good condition.
we considered using the nose thingys that are spiky to stop suckling but the nature of our land means more than twice daily checking is difficult.
i think you find a route that suits your farm and routine.
we have let our ponies self wean too for the same reasons. but i do think keeping the colostrum is vital for the new calf unless, i suppose you are buying the powdered stuff.

[Rosemary]

We have two Shetland cows; both have calved twice and we've had a bullock and a heifer each time.

First time we weaned them about seven months old - took the calves away but kept them here. It was mayhem. This year, we have grazing four miles away where our bull and 2012 bullock are. We weaned Charlie on 12th January; he was born mid/end June. Haltered him, trailered him to the grazing and put him out with the boys. The cow barely bawled at all; the calf for 12 hours. The heifer calf is still with her mother, the weaned cow and our 2012 heifer. I don't plan to wean her - they can sort it out for themselves - if it seems to be a problem, I might put on a hedgehog to stop her suckling.

I haven't had any problem with mastitis - by seven months, they aren't taking much milk and the udder never looks very full.

I find them pretty easy so far.  Calve easy, good mums but not protective of their calves - more like "come see what I've done  " - had the foot trimmer yesterday and they were fine going into the crush on the halter. The only issue was that Annie, the 2012 heifer, was a bit wee  .  my Shetlands.

[SallyintNorth]

by seven months, they aren't taking much milk and the udder never looks very full.

You're probably right - but just be aware that you can never be sure how much they're taking unless you are controlling their access.

And the udder of a cow with a large calf will always look pretty empty - cos that's how the calf keeps it, lol!

(I know these things because of running my Jerseys with calves and keeping the calves off when I want milk from her.)

And we have certainly once had a calf struggle because the previous year's calf was still suckling.  (This was with one of the suckler cows - a Charollais X.)  The problem was that the calf's fiddling about sniffling and licking annoyed the mother, the older calf latched straight on and drained the udder in minutes, the new calf never got more than a mouthful.  We'd seen it under there plenty of times, and even seen it latched on several times, but it clearly wasn't getting enough.  By the time we realised the older calf was still suckling, the young calf was frightened and hesitant of going under its mother, she was even more irritable when she did have an udderful of milk - in the end I took the new calf off and reared it on a Jersey and old the cow went down the road.

(I named her Merry - you should have seen what a change came over her when she had an udder to herself for as long as she wanted, three times a day!    )

[shygirl]

by seven months, they aren't taking much milk and the udder never looks very full.

You're probably right - but just be aware that you can never be sure how much they're taking unless you are controlling their access.

i think an older calf is capable of drinking quite alot actually. we tried a few times to wean our older calf and his mothers udder would be bulging after 12 hours. normally when he fed from her he was a pro and milked flowed fast and plentiful judging by his dribbling and milk moustache.  he might not have needed it but it was good a putting it away! 

[Factotum]

We leave ours together till the next lot start to arrive - the 'last year' calves get very excited at the new arrivals and can be a bit over exuberant and this passes on to the rest of the herd. Too much pushing and shoving and the new mums who are first timers can get a bit intimidated.

At the moment our 2013 calves are still with their mums - who are due to calve in Apr-May. We'll put the 2013s in with the bull once the 2014s arrive. We do check the condition of the mums to ensure they're coping with this, and keep a good eye on udders. Not had any significant udder problems so far.

We've found Shetlands a good breed - we started with 4 heifers and now have a small herd of 24 beasties. The Shetlands are easy to handle (if you spend time with them from when they are born) and the cows make excellent mothers, producing lots of milk.

But as always with livestock, there can be problems. Last year we had a first timer lose interest in her calf - she wandered off without it. So we had to keep it warm and do a couple of tube feeds. After it was properly on its feet, we shut the calf and her mum in a pen overnight and kept holding the calf up to the udder. By the next day, everything was OK - calf & Mum bonded nicely and calf was suckling well. The calf, Dilic, (that's pronounced Dilys) is fine, if a little smaller than the other calves.

Even Shetlands can give the odd problem, so don't get the idea that nothing can go wrong. Saying that, there is a good amount of support available from other Shetland owners - there are a few of us on here as a starter if you have any questions.

Sue

[landroverroy]

I've kept Hereford, Dexter and Highland sucklers ( among a few others) and I've always let them wean the calves naturally, which they've always done well in advance of the next calf arriving.
You can never guarantee that a problem won't arise as there's always the exception. So if I noticed that last year's calf was still suckling when the next was due, then I would separate it for a while. But normally with beef or dual purpose cattle they have dried up naturally after about 9 or 10 months, so the previous calf has given up suckling as a waste of time.
 

[shygirl]

We leave ours together till the next lot start to arrive - the 'last year' calves get very excited at the new arrivals and can be a bit over exuberant and this passes on to the rest of the herd.

our ponies get very excited when foals are born, but they were also really excited when our calf was born this week. they werent in the same field but definitely on a high. watching over the fence and galloping up and down for a few hours- reminded me of bambi 

[Marches Farmer]

Watch your stocking rate - if you have 14 sheep plus followers and a few cows on 14 acres you're likely to need to rent grass keep or buy in hay for part of the year (quite a lot of the year if the present weather pattern continues!)

[shygirl]

i agree, cows eat far more than i imagined. they are like hoovers.

[Factotum]

Looking at our records, our Shetlands average 4.5 large round bales of hay each over the winter - we feed for about 170 days a year. We are self-sufficient in feed, but we have about 47 acres of permanent grass for our 24 beasts to graze. We crop 26 acres for hay - keeping the cattle off those fields from April till the July harvest and leave the rest for the cattle to munch as grass (and rushes and gorse and...) all year round.

Good job we keep 'thrifty' cattle. But at least they're happy and healthy on hay and fresh grass and keep in condition.

Sue

[shygirl]

factotum - do you winter inside or out?

[Factotum]

Yes - sorry - mostly we let the cattle decide.

The cows and their calves from 2013 have open access to a shed and a couple of fields. They decide when to go indoors - too much wind and rain sends the calves indoors and the mums follow eventually. The 2013s were born in April/May - so they are big enough that the cold & a bit of rain & wind doesn't bother them, but they like to go indoors sometimes. We feed them outside - large round bales of hay in feeders and when the weather is dry, they'll all stay outside.

We have a few , our bull and the 2012 born steer and heifers,  kept away from the mums and their followers. As yet Tavish (the bull) and the Cs (all 2012 born have a name starting with C) are out. We are building them a temporary shelter at the moment. But they are fine outdoors  - their coats are very thick this time of year, we provide plenty of hay. We're building the shelter in case the weather takes a turn for the worse.

Up here Feb is usually fairly mild - some sun, not too much rain. However we often get lying snow in May - last year the final calf arrived on May 8 and the snow was thick on the ground. So we're going to provide some shelter for the T & Cs before the possible snow later in the year.

We sometimes shut the mums & calves in the shed - but that's usually when the calves are just arrived & the weather is too cold & wet or there's lying snow. A young calf can get chilled very quickly if there's too much
wind and rain.

We keep a good check on their ears when they're tiny - if their ears are warm, the calves have had a good belly full of mother's finest. If the day is sunny and still, they can go outside. If the day is rainy and windy, they must stay indoors. All of our adult cattle will come to a whistle - so getting them indoors is not difficult if the weather turns.

So, I guess the answer to your question is - It depends...

Sue

Sue

[shygirl]

thats really helpful, sounds ideal. thanks