[Bramblecot]

This is nasty - please do not read if you are sensitive .

A client was telling me today that she will never sell young kittens at 6-8 weeks old.  She always keeps her kittens until they are 15 weeks old.  Why? said I in all innocence.  She looked at me pityingly and said 'you have never kept snakes then?'

She then explained that some people trawl the ads. looking to acquire/buy very young kittens to use as live food for their snakes.  She said some breeders have cages of cats just for this purpose.  I have no reason to doubt her word but is this really true?

[happygolucky]

  .....surely they usualy feed them mice or rats or chicks even but never heard of kittens, that's horrid but I suppose it could and possibly does happen........what about pups?

[Penninehillbilly]

After finding out what can happen to dogs 'free to good home' nothing surprises me what some 'humans' are capable of. sickened and disgusted but not surprised     

[Mammyshaz]

There are some sick people about so somebody hearing about a sick person doing this wouldn't surprise me.
It would surprise me to find this  happening regularly as mice,rats and chicks are so easily obtained for snake food as well as rabbit for the large snake.

The cost of a kitten ( often £10-15+ ) would surely put idiots off this activity. Thankfully the majority of snake keepers are sensible, caring owners who would also cringe at this outrageous activity, true or otherwise 

[happygolucky]

Reading this post makes me feel sick as I remember my grandad used to flus new born kittens down the toilet according to my mum......and when I was about 8 , we sold a litter of pups to a chap and think they went to the fur trade..........nothing I can do now or then...but if hats my memory, I am sure loads of people have similar ones......I also wonder about people breeding just for the pet food chain......horrid.......I will probably have nightmares now.

[Alistair]

Absolute b*****ks

You NEVER feed a snake live food if you have any experieynce of snakes ... I have seen you tube videos but these are from the USA with nutters, there is a significant chance that the live food will damage the snake, big snakes, I.e. Reticulated Pythons, Anacondas, big boas are NOT cheap, my dwarf retic was in excess of 1k, his tank cost similar amount with heaters, humidifiers lights etc, you don't take any risks

Anyway a snake large enough to take a kitten only needs feeding every month, with one food item, you'd end up with cages of cats if it where true

A frozen guinea pig is about £5, as is a frozen rabbit, big rat etc, why spend more on a kitten that has a chance of hurting your pride and joy?..

Sure it probably has happened (people have probably done it to feed big dogs for a laugh.. Not) but it is not something I've ever come across and I've been keeping and breeding big snakes for 20+ years

As for breeding for the pet food chain happygolucky, hope your a vegan, because it's the sane principle as farming and that's ultimately where your dog food comes from, and yours as well, unless you can draw a distinction between your right to eat and your animals right to eat that is, which I cant

There are specialist breeders of mice, rats etc, they are killed humanely, we also use an awful lot of male chicks, not sure what'd happen to them otherwise

[happygolucky]

I understand the food chain bit, we do attach more sentiment to pet type animals, although I am going off meat big time anyway...this thread and the one about snails is making me fancy my breakfast!!!
Pig and unfertilised baby chickens for me this morning then!!

[Alistair]

This thread has made me cross

[happygolucky]

This thread has made me cross

, there are horrid people everywhere, some parents are very cruel but it does not make all parents cruel, just like snake keepers......you cannot stop cruel people but at least you can be aware of them!

[Bramblecot]

This thread has made me cross

Sorry Alistair, that was certainly not my intention. 
The question came about because yesterday at work we were trying to re-home another 9 kittens from a 2nd floor flat, along with 2 dogs and 3 adult cats that had been dumped in an unoccupied property .  Nobody round here ever needs to pay for kittens .  And that is when the client made the comment in a very matter of fact, unemotional way.  She is well acquainted with types who are into dog-fighting, badger-baiting, cock-fighting etc.  And said the younger the better re kittens.

It was not meant as a dig at snake owners.  I understand the need for small mammals as snake food but wondered about the live prey.  I know that owls prefer to take their food live and need the bones etc, not just meat and wondered about snakes.  It was just something I had never considered and wondered if it could be true.

Apologies if I have offended anybody.

[Alistair]

You have not offended me in anyway, rest assured, it's just people have like your client make glib statements, I doubt the dog fighting, baiting type probably wouldn't have the brains or finance to keep the snake alive in the first place, let alone get it to the size that could take a kitten, small or not

Big snakes are dangerous, they can give you a nasty squeeze if they want, everyone I know who keeps snakes are incredibly knowledgable (more so than your average vet), about their snakes and are incredibly responsible, it's quite an achievement to create a rainforest in a 6ftx3ftx3ft tank which has artificial daylight, moonlight &star light, day temperatures and night temperatures and, too breed anyway, a seasonal difference in temperature and light length along with a constant 80% humidity.

We try and replicate natural feeding behaviours as well, so for example one of our arboreal boas (Brazilian rainbow boa- google it, they're amazing) has 5 chicks (dead & heated to blood temperature) 4 of which go in a heap in a 'nest' hollow up done wood, ones waved around on long tweezers, he has that and then goes off hunting for more, it is fascinating to watch, really amazing, and it's a natural behaviour

Oh and to give you an idea, that's a 7ft female Brazilian rainbow boa with a normal sized mouse, a 14ft retic only needs a guinea pig, if your squeamish the snakes just hugging the mouse in the picture, it's red light because they're nocturnal, so we use that if we want to see what's going on, the moonlight is very deep purple and not good for photos

[Bramblecot]

Fascinating creatures.  Thanks for the info.  So in the wild would they eat dead animals or only live prey?

 My cats kill all sorts of small mammals around the holding but rarely eat any of them (too well fed at home ).  I did throw a few freshly dead mice (cat prey) near the feeding area for the owls and they soon disappeared.

[Alistair]

Live in the wild, but they're not in an artificially confined area so they have room to evade the prey or set up a proper ambush

Snakes are fickle when it comes to eating, sometimes they just stop eating for 4 or 5 months (big ones) live prey would attack it if threatened in a small space it's fight or flight with no room to run away basically

[sabrina]

Kittens in Aberdeenshire are for sale all the time but for £50-£100 so can't see them being bought as snake food. Nothing surprises me anymore. I was just saying this morning to my brother how evil some people can be and added, maybe they are not human  !!

[Bramblecot]

£50-£100 wow!  They must be some kind of special cat!  Obviously pedigree animals of any breed can command a premium price but I am constantly trying to rehome perfectly nice kittens and pups.  It's the 'oh, it is nice for her to have a litter' attitude that makes me  .  Totally untrained lurcher type bitch that chases cars, kills cats and fights other dogs has just had 9 pups - not by accident
I'll get off my soap box now .  I am a hypocrite really as I breed  for meat - anybody like any lamb next month ?