[mattjen]

Hi all just wondering if someone can help please?At the moment we have a boar under our holding number but isnt ours,now the owner wants to take him to market on thursday but is ranting because they think they should have my holding number and to do all the paperwork themselves,trouble is i dont trust them as far as i could throw them and they arent very good with doing the forms properly if at all sometimes!ie it took them 18 months to tranfer a sow to us on BPA,so could someone please advise on what to do?many thanks matt and jenn

[robert waddell]

if the boar is theres there is not much you can do about it     the paperwork would need to originate from your holding to the market    since it is there boar they should do the paperwork or e aml   the market should not accept it without it being on the system

[Beewyched]

Hiya MattJen 
Well, they are correct that your CPH number needs to be on the movement form.  Not sure what to advise with regards to trusting them with it, as anyone registered online (I think everyone should be now, but I was one of the "pilots") can telephone ScotEID (or the equvalent in England & Wales - someone on here will tell us) & get anyone elses CPH no by giving the address & postcode of the property.
   what you could do, if you're concerned that it's done correctly (I think you would be held responsible if the animal "disappeared" from your Herd Register) - ask them when they are collecting & if they are definately taking him directly to the mart - then do the movement online for them (being very helpful - if you see what I mean    ) & print them off a copy to take to the mart with them when they collect him - all the marts up here require a paper copy to be printed-off the system, so guess it would be the same across the UK.
Hth 

[Beewyched]

Aha - I knew someone would help us - as Robert says the aml 

[mattjen]

I did offer at the start to do all the forms etc but then they said it was nothing to do with me which yet again gave me reason to suspect and not trust them,???

[Mrs Snoodles]

I have a similar situation. My pigs on someone else's land, they keep pigs too. 
The rpa 08456037777 supplied me with my Personal Identifier, SBI, vendor number and gave me the same CPH number as the landowners, existing one. Another government agency referred to it as a landless owners number.
this was done in a phone call, so your people should be able to do this tomorrow. I was told to give it 24 hrs, then call Local animal health for a herd number, which would be different from the landowners.

In theory the boars owner should have all the necessary details by Thursday. however, registration for new electronic movement site takes a while to set up. 

I hope that this is all correct and makes sense.  My experience though has been that whenever I speak to a different government Dept I get a different answer or advice. Truly, it drives me insane.  I am currently resetting all of my information on the new system.  I'm not entirely confident that it won't all be rejected (again!).

[Mrs Snoodles]

if the boar is theres there is not much you can do about it     the paperwork would need to originate from your holding to the market    since it is there boar they should do the paperwork or e aml   the market should not accept it without it being on the system

I took my pigs to slaughter recently and am not entirely sure the new system was kicking in properly. My details had effectively been rejected, yet I turned up and pigs were accepted.  Papers signed etc.  I am in the process of trying to straighten everything out still and get to the bottom of it all.

[robert waddell]

one of our boars is constantly out on hire  the one that hires it  and has him on there premises starts the movement form   e aml or scot eid to the next farm  when he eventually comes back to us we sign him off or his movement off       there is nothing they can do with your holding number  and if there is they will get caught

[robert waddell]

if you don't have the details as per the original it will reject it even one number out it just wont accept

[Beewyched]

one of our boars is constantly out on hire  the one that hires it  and has him on there premises starts the movement form   e aml or scot eid to the next farm  when he eventually comes back to us we sign him off or his movement off       there is nothing they can do with your holding number  and if there is they will get caught

Exactly    - whoever hires either of my boys does the notification, on their system & the reciever logs-in their end to notify receipt.  Just make sure you NEVER give anyone else your login (username & password) details (even my OH doesn't know ours    )
Hope everything works out for you MJ 
Mrs S - I think the issue you are dealing with is that your pigs are on another holding that already has pigs.  So unless they are correctly seperated & all the bio-security measures are in place you will always put each other on standstill (& the same will go for the mandatory times for other stock too).  I would get in-touch with your local AH Officer & ask him/her to do a site visit with you to see if they can recommend the way forward for you - their usually really helpful 
 

[trying]

Hi,
we have recieved pigs onto our land through eaml and have gone onto the web site to confirm only to find that there is no movement to confirm,  I have emailed eaml on 3 occasions to enquire about this discrepancy but have had no reply

[oaklandspigs]

Matjen,
 
Not quite sure I fully understood your original post. 
 
I presume that the boar moved onto your holding with all the relevant paperwork (either the old paper one, or on e-aml2), and has a tag which has the herd no. of the owners.
 
So when you say they want your holding no. I presume they want your e-aml2 login, as they’ll already know your holding no. from the paperwork when he came. As others have said DO NOT give out your username.
 
If he did come without a movement form, so is technically not on your premises  then come back as the “answer” will be different.
 
I also presume you are in England & Wales (E&W) - if you’re in Scotland the principals are the same but the process is different.
 
Legally, the move is from your holding to market, and under e-aml2 you’re the only one that can enter the details, as the system only lets the holding do a move.
 
Ownership has nothing to do with animal moves, the law states that the “keeper” is the one responsible for doing the move, and defines keeper as “means any person having care and control of pigs, whether on a temporary or permanent basis, but does not include a person who only transports pigs”
 
If he came with paperwork, this is no problem, just do the move for you to the market, and in the “lot numbers” bit put his herd. No. (and individual ID if he has one). Tell them that as keeper this is your job – they may simply not understand this.
 
Print 2 or 3 copies – one for the the owners, one for the transporter if different, and one for the market – whilst the system is s’posed to be electronic so they don't need it, many markets like a bit of paper as this shows that you have done the on-line bit.
 
If the owners still insist on doing the the paperwork, then giving them your holding no. is no problem – after all they already have this.  DO NOT give you e-aml2 login – if they really think they should do it, then they can phone the e-aml2 helpline and see if they’ll do it on the phone – suspect they won’t unless they are lazy and don’t ask if you the person who has the holding, but hwo know with MLSCS.  If they do, you’ll see it come up on-line for you, but get a copy of the paperwork to be sure.  If it isn’t on your system, then don’t let the move happen, you will be the one whose records will be wrong.
 

[oaklandspigs]

Just had a thought - suspect they want to do the paperwork as most markets will pay the name & address on the movement form as the owner, so if you do the move, they'll send the cheque to you !
 
e-aml2 won't really let them get round this, as it'll still show you as the sender, so unless they cheat and claim the pig is moving from their premises, the market will tend to treat you as owner.
 
They'll really need to talk to the market to ensure that they are paid, or write this on the top of the form.
 
 
 
 
 
 

[rispainfarm]

I had my meishans down on the scoteid web form and when i went back in to put down a movment for a show a few weeks later, two had gone and in their place was two large whites coming from Lanark market.