Author Topic: Fox dilemma  (Read 1928 times)

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Far North West of England
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
Re: Fox dilemma
« Reply #30 on: July 12, 2012, 11:25:46 am »
the 'stray' hound we took in for a short while was his.

It's part of country life, cajoling the 'lost' hound into a (very secure!) shed and calling the hunstman to say you've got it.  Or, if you can't capture or secure it, letting the hunt know that it's been seen - they'll send one of the people it knows over to pick it up. 

Just make sure they're not actually still out with the pack when you do it - you won't make friends locking up a hound before the pack is rounded up!
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

penninehillbilly

  • Joined Sep 2011
  • West Yorks
Re: Fox dilemma
« Reply #31 on: July 12, 2012, 03:41:55 pm »
Youtube video below shows how it should be done, don't watch if you don't want to see a fox being shot.

Hi Jonkil
what was it about the eye at about 4min.20 ?
I prefer to see foxes shot (with a good clean shot) than hunted down.
Even foxes I wouldn't want them to crawl off and die in pain

SteveHants

  • Joined Aug 2011
Re: Fox dilemma
« Reply #32 on: July 12, 2012, 04:08:53 pm »
My problem went to foxy heaven (or Hell) complete with family, called a gamekeeper from a nearby estate, they try and keep 'things' down in number as a buffer outside the actual estate, he also said it wasn't actually illegal to let them loose, because they are a native breed, also some rescue centres have a licence to release them (and grey squirrels etc >:( )


As I understand it, they are classed as vermin and therefore it is against the Wildlife and Countryside Act, 1984 to release them, but I could be wrong.

penninehillbilly

  • Joined Sep 2011
  • West Yorks
Re: Fox dilemma
« Reply #33 on: July 12, 2012, 06:31:16 pm »
thought I'd better check so I googled fox release and found (apart from a load of films)  ::) , the following sites
 
http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00Man/MammalHusbandryTechniques/UKMHusbIndTech/cas_release_m_foxes.htm

http://www.wildaboutbritain.co.uk/forums/mammal-forums/65598-fox-release-after-rehabilitaion.html
 
rather than clicking in the address, which doesn't work for me, copy and paste complete address into address bar.
Ended up wandering round 'Wild about Britain' for quite a while  :)

rockstar

  • Joined Jan 2012
  • powys
Re: Fox dilemma
« Reply #34 on: July 12, 2012, 07:05:44 pm »
To keep the fox away get your otherhalf to pee  outside in your field,Hugh fearnley-whittingstall from river cottage says it works for him!!

Bionic

  • Joined Dec 2010
  • Talley, Carmarthenshire
Re: Fox dilemma
« Reply #35 on: July 12, 2012, 07:08:03 pm »
Rockstar I will send him and the dog out to pee together  ;D ;D 
Life is like a bowl of cherries, mostly yummy but some dodgy bits

Small Farmer

  • Joined Jan 2012
  • Bedfordshire
Re: Fox dilemma
« Reply #36 on: July 13, 2012, 12:01:07 am »
I've routinely pee'd near the chicken house but it ain't working. Normally OH spends quite a lot of time in the orchard but we're away.  Ours were taken before 2000 in good light conditions, and all bar one removed at least 400m and a main road.
Being certain just means you haven't got all the facts

Moleskins

  • Joined Sep 2009
  • England
Re: Fox dilemma
« Reply #37 on: July 13, 2012, 10:01:30 am »
Moleskins, I understand but don't have a gun.
Sally


Hi Sally,


I'm sure there must be someone nearby with a shotgun that would happily do the job for you.
Plus it may be worth you having one yourself to deal with crows, grey squirrels, rabbits etc.
I know this may make me seem like a Rambo type but I'm not, just a realist who sees that we often upset the balance of nature and so should put things right. My gun doesn't often come out of the cabinet but it would for a fox going after my lambs or a dog worrying my sheep.
I really do hope you get the fox before it 'gets you'. 
 :fc:  for your stock.

Time flies like an arrow but fruit flies like a banana.

Burrwoodfm

  • Joined Apr 2012
Re: Fox dilemma
« Reply #38 on: July 13, 2012, 02:29:03 pm »
No, they are not classed as vermin, and it is  not illegal to release them into the wild.  We are a wildlife release area for several wildlife charities on our farm, and we usually end up with fox cubs each year that are raised and released back into the wild.  What happens to them once they leave our care is left to fate, but it certainly is not illegal to re-release them.  I also have chickens in a free-range area - mains electric fenced - of about a quarter of an acre and despite having fox cubs every year, we have never lost our chickens to them.  The worst loss we had was when they were in their house at night, and a stoat got in! 


jonkil

  • Guest
Re: Fox dilemma
« Reply #39 on: July 13, 2012, 05:37:07 pm »
A shotgun is not quite the job for them, unless the range is close and loaded with "Triple AAA"... as someone said earlier its better to have a clean kill rather than wounding the animal.
 Someone experienced with a high powered hunting rifle is the right person to shoot them, but if you live in an urban area that may not be practical... backdrop/ricochet considerations etc.

Quote from: penninehillbilly

Hi Jonkil
what was it about the eye at about 4min.20 ?
I prefer to see foxes shot (with a good clean shot) than hunted down.
Even foxes I wouldn't want them to crawl off and die in pain
Couldn't see the entry point of the shot, the exit wound is very apparent with a 22.250 tightly packed round... the entry point in that case was the foxes eye.. Yes I agree 100% with the clean shot analogy, the animal is under no duress at all, it wont know what hit it when performed properly... hunting and snaring/trapping is quite barbaric, the animal is tortured to death.
Also, here we have inexperienced guys lamping and shooting with shotguns and rimfire rifles that are in no way up to the job and actually quite dangerous in the wrong hands.


SteveHants

  • Joined Aug 2011
Re: Fox dilemma
« Reply #40 on: July 13, 2012, 06:40:10 pm »
No, they are not classed as vermin, and it is  not illegal to release them into the wild.  We are a wildlife release area for several wildlife charities on our farm, and we usually end up with fox cubs each year that are raised and released back into the wild.  What happens to them once they leave our care is left to fate, but it certainly is not illegal to re-release them.  I also have chickens in a free-range area - mains electric fenced - of about a quarter of an acre and despite having fox cubs every year, we have never lost our chickens to them.  The worst loss we had was when they were in their house at night, and a stoat got in!


I'm gonna check this, because it was when I did conservation law in the early 2000s, but it may have changed since then.


Oh, and BBs do the job very effectiveley at close range.  :thumbsup:

Burrwoodfm

  • Joined Apr 2012
Re: Fox dilemma
« Reply #41 on: July 13, 2012, 08:09:30 pm »


Hi - I know it's a bone of contention, and I appreciate why some farmers chose to destroy foxes on their land, but the RSPCA and other wildlife sanctuary's regularly release wildlife, including foxes back into the wild.  Have a look here for the legal info on it :

The whole legislation can be seen [/color]here.

 

As someone else said, "a word of warning though, anyone releasing foxes could be guilty of an offence under the Animal Welfare Act 2006, if by doing so they caused un-necessary suffering (in the opinion of a judge)" 



Below is just an a tiny piece of that legislation.
[/size]

Schedule 2, part 2 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 was amended in 1992 by Statutory Instrument 3010, which lists the followingbirds
[/color] as being those which may be taken at any time by any authorised person.  Those birds listed are:

Crow   Corvus corone
Dove, Collared   Streptopelia decaocto
Gull, Great Black-backed   Larus marinus
Gull, Lesser Black-backed   Larus fuscus
Gull, Herring   Larus argentatus
Jackdaw   Corvus monedula
Jay   Garrulus glandarius
Magpie   Pica pica
Pigeon, Feral   Columba livia
Rook   Corvus frugilegus
Sparrow, House   Passer domesticus
Starling   Sturnus vulgaris
Woodpigeon   Columba palumbus


Part 1, Section 14 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 does indeed prohibit the release of certain species;

14 Introduction of new species etc. E+W

(1)Subject to the provisions of this Part, if any person releases or allows to escape into the wild any animal which—

(a)is of a kind which is not ordinarily resident in and is not a regular visitor to Great Britain in a wild state; or

(b)is included in Part I of Schedule 9,

he shall be guilty of an offence.

(2)Subject to the provisions of this Part, if any person plants or otherwise causes to grow in the wild any plant which is included in Part II of Schedule 9, he shall be guilty of an offence.

(3)Subject to subsection (4), it shall be a defence to a charge of committing an offence under subsection (1) or (2) to prove that the accused took all reasonable steps and exercised all due diligence to avoid committing the offence.

(4)Where the defence provided by subsection (3) involves an allegation that the commission of the offence was due to the act or default of another person, the person charged shall not, without leave of the court, be entitled to rely on the defence unless, within a period ending seven clear days before the hearing, he has served on the prosecutor a notice giving such information identifying or assisting in the identification of the other person as was then in his possession.

[F119(5)Any person authorised in writing by the Secretary of State may, at any reasonable time and (if required to do so) upon producing evidence that he is authorised, enter any land for the purpose of ascertaining whether an offence under subsection (1) or (2) is being, or has been, committed on that land; but nothing in this subsection shall authorise any person to enter a dwelling.]

[F119(6)Any person who intentionally obstructs a person acting in the exercise of the power conferred by subsection (5) shall be guilty of an offence.]

SCHEDULE 9 E+W+S Animals and plants to which section 14 applies
Part I  E+W+S Animals which are established in the wild

Bass, Large-mouthed Black   Micropterus salmoides
Bass, Rock   Ambloplites rupestris
Bitterling   Rhodeus sericeus
Budgerigar   Melopsittacus undulatus
Capercaillie   Tetrao urogallus
Coypu   Myocastor coypus
[F603Crayfish, Noble]    [Astacus astacus]
[Crayfish, Signal]    [Pacifastacus leniusculus]
[Crayfish, Turkish]    [Astacus leptodactylus]
[F604Deer, Muntjac]   [F604Muntiacus reevesi]
[Deer, Sika]    [Cervus nippon]
[F605 Deer, any hybrid one of whose parents or other lineal ancestor was a Sika Deer]   [ Any hybrid of Cervus nippon]
[ With respect to the Outer Hebrides and the isalnds of Aaran, Islay, Jura and Rum - (a)Deer, Cervus(allspecies)]   [F605 Cervus]
[F605 (b)Deer, any hybrid one of whose parents or other lineal ancestor was a species of Cervus Deer]   [F605 Any hybrid of the genus Cervus]
Dormouse, Fat   Glis glis
Duck, Carolina Wood   Aix sponsa
Duck, Mandarin   Aix galericulata
Duck, Ruddy   Oxyura jamaicensis
Eagle, White-tailed   Haliaetus albicilla
[Flatworm, New Zealand]    [Artiposthia triangulata]
Frog, Edible   Rana esculenta
Frog, European Tree (otherwise known as Common tree frog)   Hyla arborea
Frog, Marsh   Rana ridibunda
Gerbil, Mongolian   Meriones unguiculatus
Goose, Canada   Branta canadensis
Goose, Egyptian   Alopochen aegyptiacus
Heron, Night   Nycticorax nycticorax
Lizard, Common Wall   Podarcis muralis
Marmot, Prairie (otherwise known as Prairie dog)   Cynomys
Mink, American   Mustela vison
Newt, Alpine   Triturus alpestris
[Newt, Italian Crested]    [Triturus carnifex]
[F606Owl, Barn]    [Tyto alba]
Parakeet, Ring-necked   Psittacula krameri
Partridge, Chukar   Alectoris chukar
Partridge, Rock   Alectoris graeca
Pheasant, Golden   Chrysolophus pictus
Pheasant, Lady Amherst’s   Chrysolophus amherstiae
Pheasant, Reeves’   Syrmaticus reevesii
Pheasant, Silver   Lophura nycthemera
Porcupine, Crested   Hystrix cristata
Porcupine, Himalayan   Hystrix hodgsonii
Pumpkinseed (otherwise known as Sun-fish or Pond-perch)   Lepomis gibbosus
Quail, Bobwhite   Colinus virginianus
Rat, Black   Rattus rattus
[Snake, Aesculapian]    [Elaphe longissima]
Squirrel, Grey   Sciurus carolinensis
Terrapin, European Pond   Emys orbicularis
Toad, African Clawed   Xenopus laevis
Toad, Midwife   Alytes obstetricans
Toad, Yellow-bellied   Bombina variegata
Wallaby, Red-necked   Macropus rufogriseus
Wels (otherwise known as European catfish)   Silurus glanis
Zander   Stizostedion lucioperca

I have had a quick nose through and can't see any legislation that related to the legality of releasing foxes back into the wild.


Burrwoodfm

  • Joined Apr 2012
Re: Fox dilemma
« Reply #42 on: July 13, 2012, 08:15:10 pm »
Also, this article last year would seem to confirm that even urban foxes are not currently classed as vermin:


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12775345




sabrina

  • Joined Nov 2008
Re: Fox dilemma
« Reply #43 on: July 13, 2012, 09:26:49 pm »
Local farmer will shoot it for you, he or she will get your chickens if it knows they are there  :(

SteveHants

  • Joined Aug 2011
Re: Fox dilemma
« Reply #44 on: July 14, 2012, 04:47:13 pm »
I wonder what the etiquette is about shooting the foxes as soon as they are a safe distance from the release vans.... :innocent:

 

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