[little blue]

Have registered for e-AML today & awaiting confirmation.

However, I'd like to use a paper Food Chain Information form, the piggies are hopefully going soon
I did have a copy on my laptop til it had a nervous breakdown & I lost pretty much everything 

I've searched through the DEFRA website, but cannot find a FCI even in the archives

...Am I looking in the wrong place?!

Thanks in advance

[little blue]

Oh, and another thing!

Please correct me if I've misunderstood...

The eAML requires prior notice (2 days?) or pig movement?

All being well. I have 2 weaners going "farm to farm" at the weekend - either tagged or on a temporary mark.
Who's responsible for 1) giving notice
                                2) keeping records - if its electronic, I don't know if the other farm has BPEX registration. They are the hauliers
                                3) If whichever one of us completes the eAML prior to the movement, and they are unable to collect them, what happens then?

What are the standstill implications for each of us?
(I can;t remember & can't bear anymore DEFRA  - I know you helpful folk will know!)

thanks
 

[robert waddell]

i think the expert is oaklands well they have rattled all the relevant bodies about this
do you need the FCI information if they are going farm to farm     farm to slaughter YES
if you are selling you start the e aml
records still have to be kept (your movement book) 
if you cant complete the movement that is one of the questions oaklands has asked
you the holding of origin no standstill requirements        the delivery address is shut down for 20 days unless they are going into isolation and the isolation is approved
o and yes the e aml does require 2 days notice
but you can still use paper 

[little blue]

Sorry - meant to add more clearly that the farm to farm is one movement with weaners...
... the FCI is if course for 3 short-arse pigs to slaughter, hopefully not 100% sure when, as I'm not the haulier!  as a separate movement (hence checking the standstills)


Thanks Robert

[oaklandspigs]

LB,

First FCI - There is no form prescribed by law - FCI is run by the Food standards Agency, so a model form is held there.  Defra won't put the form or a link on their site in case it changes, so no joined up gov there !
Link to suggested form
http://www.food.gov.uk/foodindustry/guidancenotes/meatregsguid/fcipigslaughter

On e-aml (England and wales only! - scotland has a different system coming)

The following assumes you have registered with e-aml and have a password - anyone reading this who hasn't should do so now - you'll need to have done this when it becomes compulsory in April, and better to do it now whilst it is quiet than wait until April and find the system clogged.

First it is you the "off-holding" (Holding from which the pigs are being moved) that must do the move.  IF you have a PC, then you just have to have done the notification before the pigs move.  This can be one minute before as long as your PC and internet are working (and your printer or you have a pro-forma printed).  Obviously if your PC is not on your holding then you will need to have done this before you leave.  You can do it days, weeks or months ahead.

If the person receiving has not registered, then if you have time, suggest to them that they do so, as this just makes it easier.  However it is not a big deal if they haven't.  You will however need their name, their postcode and their holding no. as minimum information.  You can then register their holding as part of the movement process. 

Log onto the system, and go into "set up a new movement" do a farm to farm, and set up their destination if need be.  Fill in the data - the Q's with * are the compulsory ones for compliance with PRIMO.  For complex reasons the rest may or may not be required - I am trying to get BREX to give some guidance here as I object in principal to the collection of data that is not required, and which defra say will be used for fishing expeditions - but i suggest that you complete all of them for the moment.

Print the form.  When you do the move, correct or add the haulier data and give the form to the haulier.
If the destination site (called the "on-holding") is on PC and internet, then give them the reference no. - it is probably just as easy to print a second copy of the form if they are not also the haulier, and I will be asking for these when we are receiving, as I worked in IT for a while and have little faith in systems not losing data.  Similarly I will be keeping copies of the forms as the off-holding when we sell stuff.

If the on-holding is not on PC and internet, then you must give them a copy of the form.  In all cases the on-holding must confirm the move within 3 days, by PC, telephone, fax or post.

Once the pigs have moved, you are asked to confirm the move by PC, although you can do this by phone, post or even by SMS if you have registered your mobile.  you should do this within 24 hours of the move.  this part has no legal enforcement, so you don't have to do this, but at the moment you screw the system if you don't, so suggest you do until they get the system changed.

Basically that's it - well most of it!

Come back if that's not clear.

[Berkshire Boy]

Hi Little blue,
No standstill for you as the weaners are leaving your holding and anything going to slaughter is not affected by standstill. The guy who is buying your weaners will be on standstill for 20 days for any pigs on site, unless there is an approved quarantine facility

[Roxy]

I am the one having the weaners.  Trying to get my head round what has been said on this matter

This standstill - my goats are only on a 6 standstill (or as the animal health man told me - count 6 full days, so its actually 7).

My question is - does this standstill affect ALL my livestock?  Meaning including the goats.  I ask this, because having stud billy goats, I do have female goats coming, visiting, and staying, and obviously leaving again..  Will having the pigs, affect my goat situation?

It would not matter at any other time of year, but this is bang in the middle of the goat breeding season!!!

There again, and I whisper this - who is to know what goats are comng and going - except me and the female goat owner?

[robert waddell]

from the new Scottish guidelines     pigs trigger a 20 day standstill on other pigs they trigger a 13 day standstill on other animals inc elephants
once the pigs are on your holding nothing can move of until the prescribed period your only way round this is with having an isolation facility and if you are as busy as you suggest it would be of benefit
i never read your last sentence don't know what you are referring to

[oaklandspigs]

Roxy,

As you are in England

bringing cattle sheep or goats onto a holding triggers a 6 day standstill on pigs cattle sheep or goats
bringing pigs onto a holding triggers a 20 day standstill on pigs, and a 6 day standstill on cattle sheep and goats

So when you get your pigs

Pigs cannot leave for 20 days
Goats already on your premises cannot leave for 6 days, so any visiting females already at yours will need to stay for 6 days from the day the pigs come.  This is 6 days, so if the pigs arrive at 4pm on Sunday, any goats can leave at 00.01pm on the following Sunday. (Corrected as Oaklands got it wrong !) 
After 6 days, goats can come and go as before (obviously triggering standstills of 6 days on each other as is the case now)
Anything can however go to slaughter irrespective of the above.

[robert waddell]

Scottish pigs are just as succeptiable to disease as English pigs or welsh
but Scottish cows sheep goats and elephants are more resilient than English and welsh ones that must be the difference with a 6 day standstill for English and welsh and a 13 day standstill for for the tough Scottish  ones

[SallyintNorth]

Goats already on your premises cannot leave for 6 days, so any visiting females already at yours will need to stay for 6 days from the day the pigs come.  This is 6*24 hours, so if the pigs arrive at 4pm on Monday, any goats can leave at 4.01pm on Saturday.

Well, this doesn't happen often - but oaklands, you got that wrong! 

Firstly, and I am 100% certain on this one, 6*24 hours from 4pm Monday is 4:01pm Sunday  (I counted it on my fingers six times to be completely sure before correcting you!)

Secondly, and I am willing (even happy) to be corrected myself on this one, I have always been told that "it's 6 clear days, with Day 1 being the day after the movement" - which I have always taken to mean that actually it's a week.  If I bring something on on a Thursday, I can't take anything off (except straight to dedicated slaughter) until the following Thursday. 

If I am wrong on this, Ceredigion County Council will need correcting as well as me:
http://www.ceredigion.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=16119

[Berkshire Boy]

Yes Sally that is exactly as I understand it, I always leave 6 clear days. Last year I did get a letter and phone call from them because i had moved pigs a day early. I said about the 24 hour thing  and was told 6 clear days.

[oaklandspigs]

Goats already on your premises cannot leave for 6 days, so any visiting females already at yours will need to stay for 6 days from the day the pigs come.  This is 6*24 hours, so if the pigs arrive at 4pm on Monday, any goats can leave at 4.01pm on Saturday.

Well, this doesn't happen often - but oaklands, you got that wrong! 

Firstly, and I am 100% certain on this one, 6*24 hours from 4pm Monday is 4:01pm Sunday  (I counted it on my fingers six times to be completely sure before correcting you!)

Yes you are quite correct - was being yelled at when I was typing to go and pick up mother in law for lunch, so not concentrating.

will come back on the second pint when i have fed pigs etc. !

[oaklandspigs]

Right now back in from feeding the pigs

The 6 or 20 day period is stated in the Disease Control Order 2003 (England and a seperate one for wales).  These standstills are state several times, but an example is :

"any cattle, goats or sheep have been moved on to those premises during the previous 6 days."

This seems to support your local council's view as you could argue that if a pig is moved on a monday, then on Tuesday this would be during the previous 1 day, Wednesday during the previous 2 days and so on.  Not until Monday 00:01 would this statement become false.

So yes Oaklands Pigs is wrong on this one - I have corrected the above !

[robert waddell]

6 clear days would be 4 pm on the saturday or just after that time not 6 days 8 hours