[melodrama]

Well I had mentally prepared myself for our two pigs going to the abbatoir today, I had borrowed the trailer from Rosemary and Dan and I had loaded them up into it PRIOR to realising that they couldn't go anywhere because because it hadn't been 21 days since we got Vaila our heifer!!  Very annoyed at myself and was extremely embarrass xed but at least I remembered in time and I've booked them back in for a fortnights time when I can next borrow the trailer.  So - I want to thank Rosemary and Dan for being kind enough to loan me their trailer TWICE and for not taking the mickey out of me too much.  I will try harder next time 

[melodrama]

Oh and sausage and bacon are happily enjoying their new home in the barn where they are nice and cosy.  I think they quite enjoyed their "night away" in the trailer in the garden haha

[robert waddell]

sorry you have got this all wrong 
20 day standstill for pigs coming onto your holding    they can come on but it keeps triggering the 20 days
sheep and cattle trigger a 13 day standstill also goats
you can move any animal of your holding  providing it is going straight to slaughter
BUT YOU CANNOT MOVE A LIVE ANIMAL TO ANOTHER HOLDING
unless you have an approved isolation facility

[doganjo]

BUT YOU CANNOT MOVE A LIVE ANIMAL TO ANOTHER HOLDING

They haven't been anywhere, Robert!  They were in their garden in the trailer!  The point was another animal came onto their holding within the 20 days. 

[robert waddell]

i think you both have this wrong
if cattle came on they bring with them a 13 day standstill for all animals on the holding  unless they are going direct to slaughter  as was the case   so they could move to slaughter

[manian]

Robert is correct.
you can bring animals onto holding each bringing a standstill, you can remove animals so long as they are only going to the abbatoir.....
sorry to say you could have taken them 
Mx
we have just got our pigs but our lambs will be going off soon to the abbatoir
 

[Anke]

Yep, correct - they could have gone to the abattoir, no problem.

[HappyHippy]

Yup, agree with everyone else. You can move to slaughter regardless of standstills.
But it's good to get a trial run of loading  Good luck for a fortnights time
Karen 

[oaklandspigs]

In England and Wales:

bringing cattle sheep or goats onto a holding triggers a 6 day standstill on pigs cattle sheep or goats
bringing pigs onto a holding triggers a 20 day standstill on pigs, and a 6 day standstill on cattle sheep and goats
BUT as with scotland you can always move stuff to slauhghter.

The idea behind the legislation is to slow disease spread, pigs take longer to show F&M.
So if I bring pigs onto a holding, the cattle sheep or goats alreday there will rapidly show F&M if they catch it, so if they haven't shown it in 6 days then they are likely to be ok, whereas any pigs already there will take longer to show so have to wait 20 days.  if I bring cattle, sheep or goats on, then the animals coming on will show the disease, so if they are well after 6 days, then they are unlikely to have F&M, so will not have passed it to pigs, so all can move.  And if you take any animal to the abattoir, then it will be dead so not spread disease further!

[melodrama]

HHHHmmmmm the form that I had to sign had a declaration that I had to sign confirming that I hadn't moved any cattle onto my premises in the last 20 days!  I couldn't sign that and then hand them in knowing that it was only 17 days surely??  Confused much?  In any event its all booked in for 2 weeks so at least they'll get done then - either way its still a rookie mistake to make haha

[Berkshire Boy]

Come on people this is basic stuff, if you brought cattle on yesterday your pigs can still go to slaughter NO STANDSTILL IF GOING TO SLAUGHTER. What hope has defra got with implementing the e-aml if you cant even get the simple stuff right.

[melodrama]

Come on people this is basic stuff, if you brought cattle on yesterday your pigs can still go to slaughter NO STANDSTILL IF GOING TO SLAUGHTER. What hope has defra got with implementing the e-aml if you cant even get the simple stuff right.

As I said, I had thought that to be the case until I read my movement form which had a declaration on it that I hadn't moved cattle on to the property within 20 days - as I had, my assumtion was was I could not lawfully sign the declaration!  If the declaration is not applicable to slaughter then as far as I am concerned, at least I have erred on the side of caution rather than inadvertantly causing an outbreak of something nasty or any other potential problem.  I would always rather be safe than sorry and I went with my gut instinct and I have to say that despite the fact that it would now appear I could've taken them, I am glad that I did what I thought was right.  I'm fairly sure that DEFRA would rather I err on the side of caution if confused than recklessly go into a situation where I am not 100% sure if I have it right or not!  This is my first year and I am sure I will make many more mistakes but I am learning quickly - not least of which is to trust my own instincts.
Melanie

[SallyintNorth]

Mel - yes of course you should always err on the side of caution and you should always do what you think is right and never let yourself be bullied into doing something you are unsure of.  Good for you {{{hugs}}}

Some people seem to be often wise after the event - I'm with you, better to be over cautious than inadvertantly cause a problem.

I'm in England, rules for me are as oaklands says.

What was the form that had the bit about not having moved cattle on within 20 days? 

[HappyHippy]

Here's the following info which I took from a guide issued by my local council (although it's all likely to change with the e-AML2 & changes to the legislation.
Movement of pigs: General provisions

5.   There is a general requirement that no pigs should be moved off a premises within 20 days of any pigs moving onto those premises, not including the day of movement (previously the legislation specified 21 days but this included the day of the movement). When pigs are moved off premises they must be accompanied by either a movement licence issued by the local authority or a declaration signed by the owner of keeper of the pigs. Details of the type of licence/self issued declaration are set out in Annex 1. When a self issued declaration is issued, a copy must be sent to the local authority, unless the pigs are going direct to a slaughterhouse. Certain specific movements are however exempted from this rule and are set out below.

6.   The following movements are exempt from the 20 day rule but must be made under a declaration or licence as appropriate:

a)   movement between premises in the same ownership provided the Scottish Executive has authorised such movements
b)   pigs direct to a slaughterhouse, or to a market or collecting centre, for pigs intended for immediate slaughter.c)   Movement for direct export or to a collecting centre prior to such export.
Melanie, if you want to pm me your email address I can email the whole document to you for reference.
Karen 

[manian]

Mel - yes of course you should always err on the side of caution and you should always do what you think is right and never let yourself be bullied into doing something you are unsure of.  Good for you {{{hugs}}}

I agree...........  and don't feel bad- better to wait and check...... and thaks for sharing as i'm sure it helps others who will have been unsure     (not sure how to do hugs- we need an icon)
Mx