[welshlass181]

I've managed to convince a local veg shop to give me the stock that they can't sell or that has perished.  I've collected it on a Friday the last 2 Fridays and we average 5-6 bags/boxes of all sorts of fruit and veg.  This stuff is all on it's way out and we don't really have anywhere to store it.  We chuck it around the field/pens/paddocks to give them something to think about and to keep them occupied.

Is there a limit to how much they can be fed at one time?  Should i feed them hard feed too?  I limit how much the sow and babies have and she has a full feed of sow and weaner nuts (and they always have as much haylage as they can eat).

[HappyHippy]

For Kune Kunes - if they are under a year they'll still need the hard feed for vitamins, minerals etc, but you can cut it down to 1lb a day per pig, plus the hayledge and as much fruit & veg as they'll eat  For adults & dry sows they should be fine with just hayledge and fruit & veg.......but keep an eye on them, especially as the weather gets colder as they might need a bit of hard feed too (no matter how much fruit & veg I get, mine always get around 2lbs each in winter to compensate for the weather)
For all other breeds, count 4lbs of fruit & veg as 1lb of hard feeding and feed up to a maximum of 50% fruit & veg (ie. if you've got a 4 month old fattener you could feed 2lbs plus 8lbs of fruit & veg per day)
Does that make sense ? Hope so 
Karen x

[SallyintNorth]

Well I've spent all evening poring over the 'Newcastle document' on nutritional values of various feedstuffs for pigs.

Karen's "4x pellets by weight" is broadly consistent with their findings - some things are 6x barley and some 19x barley (!) but pellets won't be 100% barley - and Karen has a lot of experience so I'd take her word over some academic tome in any case!

I only posted in order to mention a caution about potatoes, in case you didn't already know.

Spuds are best cooked and the green bits are toxic.  Raw spuds can interfere with protein uptake - but if there is just a small proportion of spuds I don't suppose it could hurt too much.  If worried but not practical to cook, it says the interference would be lessened by feeding the raw spuds at a different time to the compound feed.

In the document there was quite a bit about managing the intake in finishing pigs dependent on breed and back fat.  I think I am understanding it to be suggesting that traditional breeds, prone to laying down a lot of fat, probably want to be fed more fillers to reduce their appetite for pellets than do the commercial breeds, which are now genetically lean.

I think I have a good few more evenings of study ahead of me before it all really makes sense to me... 

[tizaala]

 The spuds must not be cooked in your kitchen, but you already knew that.

[robert waddell]

and do not forget the role that sawdust can play in the finnishing of pigs

[egglady]

sawdust??

[Sylvia]

You might ask if you can collect daily or at least every other day. Bruised fruit goes off so quickly. I collect boxes full four times a week and at least one box in three is fit only for the compost heap( not wasted though) I look at the boxes and think "What could I eat if I were hard up for grub?" If I would eat it then I give it to the pigs, if not it goes for compost.

[robert waddell]

SYLVIA  you are wasting the fruit or depriving the pigs of the best bits        the more rotten the fruit the better they enjoy it        Spanish potatoes they rot quick and they love them they will leave there hard feeding to fight over that rotten stinking spud
we collect once a week and have never had to dump any boxes yet 

[oaklandspigs]

well done Sally for doing the research, it is a fun subject to read up on.

One of the better books on pig nutrition is Nutrition and feeding of organic pigs By Robert Blair

When feeding pigs you need to consider why you are feeding them  - Is it for

Speed finishing - get them to weight as fast as possible
Taste - you are what you eat
Leanness - ensuring correct fat covering
Cost - getting there at the cheapest cost.

If it is speed finishing, then grower and finisher is your route, and don't deviate as anything else will be a second best, and not finish as fast.
If it is taste, then  outdoor will achieve a totally different taste than indoors, as with the pigs just rooting/grazing and getting soil, worms grubs and vegetation, this will change the flavour of the meat.  You are what you eat, and adding fruit/veg will add further notes to the meat. There is an old tale of the farmer who grew onions, and after harvest put his pigs on there to let them root around.  They found so many missed onions and ate them, that when the pigs were killed the farmer described them as tasting of diesel !
If leanness, then watching supplemental feeding, and ensuring that carbohydrates are restricted will help, along with regular feeling of the backbone
If cost, then watch that the "free food" is really saving you money.  If it takes you 8 months to do what grower does in 4, is this really a saving?  Is a twice as fat pig as it has had too much carbohydrate saleable? what about your time or that you could have sold twice as much meat (2 lots in 4 months than 1 lot in 8 ).  "Free food" can be made to work, but is not a guarantee of saving money.

In reality we are all balancing the above factors, time, taste, right amount of fat and cost.   

At Oaklandspigs, we tend to feed fruit/veg to our sows (who are effectively maintaining rather than growing, so less protein, more carbohydrate diet), and do on a basis of substituting one meal with fruit/veg, and then normal food for other feed of the day.

Last thought - I had a phone call last year from a customer worried about what she was feeding her pigs, spent 1/2 hour chatting through possibilities, protein, CHO's, min/vits etc.  During the conversation I heard her saying "just get yourself something from the freezer" - when I commenetd, she said "oh that was just the kids coming in".  So her pigs merit several days of her worrying and a long conversation with me, but the kids - well she wasn't weighing their food, noting the protein levels, oil, worrying about amino acids !

[welshlass181]

They still get hard feed, probably 3/4 on the day we collect it,  and as much haylage as they can eat we're giving them the fruit and stuff as an added top up / treat.  The land that they are on is 4 miles away and if i do cook anything it's in a half 45 gallon drum over a fire in the field

They adore the squishy tomatoes and fruit and tend to go for that first.  I've asked them about more regular collections and the owner said that they can't guarantee what produce is going to be un-sellable and therefor she'll phone me when she has some for me.  To be fair to her she is giving the stuff to me so i'll work around her.

[Sylvia]

Right! The compost heap will only get the onions from now on

[robert waddell]

the sawdust is used as a filler to make them feel as if the have gorged themselves      but you have to incorporate it into the feed       usually when the pigs have reached a target weight and you don't want them growing any more because of market conditions

[egglady]

the sawdust is used as a filler to make them feel as if the have gorged themselves      but you have to incorporate it into the feed       usually when the pigs have reached a target weight and you don't want them growing any more because of market conditions

that's just sad....my wee piggies will never ever be fed sawdust

[robert waddell]

how are they getting on Laura ours are nearly 70 kilos there hams must be thing of beauty will you be able to wave them goodbye then have all these braw pork dinners you being that excellent cook

[egglady]

how are they getting on Laura ours are nearly 70 kilos there hams must be thing of beauty will you be able to wave them goodbye then have all these braw pork dinners you being that excellent cook

how can i tell how heavy they are?