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Author Topic: Rising cost of feed- do your home work  (Read 4879 times)

farming_newblood

  • Joined Feb 2009
Rising cost of feed- do your home work
« on: October 06, 2011, 07:13:55 pm »
Hi all, I learned something very interesting today at uni- pigs need 9 amino acids obtained in there occurring form to be able to form protien on a cellular level- for growth and repair- (food has different combinations of these amino acids apart from eggs- they contain all- but are high in fat- and soya contains all essential amino acids!)  now I had been feeding some pigs on a mix of breads and cakes from a bakery- after checking this with DEFRA and being ok'd) I expected them to romp on the pig nuts to bread ratio was 2:1 bread is a good source of protien and carbs from the wheat flour. But though they were happy they just weren't growing at the rate we expected. I now know wheat and other cereals are an incomplete protien as it does not contain lycine! A major factor in growth- but this is naturally occurring in pulses- so by using cereal and pulses (beans, peas and lentils) they can get all the nutrients required- and on top of pig nuts make a cheaper food stuff- now I'm not a food scientist so I still use majority pig nuts but supplement with cereals and pulses snd fresh greens from fodder crops to bulk out feeds!

HappyHippy

  • Guest
Re: Rising cost of feed- do your home work
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2011, 07:44:09 pm »
I don't feed bakery waste, but do feed fruit & veg waste (keeping within all the legalities) along with my pig nuts for the very reasons you talk about  ;)
The way I see it is bread & cakes will maintain them but it's the pig equivalent of junk food, they do far better on a balanced diet with all the vitamins & minerals needed for good growth and health. While it's possible to skrimp a bit on nuts and up the other foods for fatteners if I wanted to, I certainly wouldn't consider it for any breeding stock - I just feel they need the balance to ensure a long and productive life.
Feed companies spend hundreds of thousands of pounds researching their products, making sure they've got the right balance for growth & health, I wouldn't have a clue where to start  :-\ So rather than risk screwing up my stock (and dealing with the licensing for feed mixing) I just stick to the nuts. Depending on where you are in the country it's worth checking out East Coast Viners (Stonehaven) their rolls are coming in at around £300 the tonne - a saving of over £70 a tonne on any other prices I've been able to find (Harbro, BOCM Pauls, Carrs Billington, D & H etc) the pigs are doing well on it and the company are fantastic to deal with.......if you do contact them, please tell 'em you heard about them through the Scottish Pig Keepers Association  ;)
Thanks, Karen  :wave:

robert waddell

  • Guest
Re: Rising cost of feed- do your home work
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2011, 08:05:31 pm »
farming newblood       what was your expected growth rate  and what was your growth rate     how much did it cost you to put a kilo on     what was the protein content of the bakery waste     and what did it cost to make the feed mix you mention :farmer:

RobbyM

  • Joined Oct 2009
Re: Rising cost of feed- do your home work
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2011, 09:44:44 am »
farming newblood, if you are looking at reducing feed cost by incorporating volumes of raw legumes, just be careful as raw legumes have anti nutritional factors that can actually depress growth as well as feed consumption.

You can neutralise these factors by applying a heat source, which can be done by boiling/cooking on a low heat for about 40 -45 minutes and then allowing to dry, if you over cook you change the availability of the amino acids and under cooking will result in a bitter taste which will obviously affect consumption.
Likewise with potatoes it is better to cook them as this destroys the alkaloids, which are a growth inhibitor and also allows better digestion of the starch as pigs are  monogastric.

You also need to weigh up the cost factors of the above in relation to the savings made on buying commercially prepared feed and there certainly is a value for convenience

I have been mixing/growing my own feed for the past few years now, mainly due to the fact that I can't find any commercially prepared feed that does not contain growth hormones.

Fowgill Farm

  • Joined Feb 2009
Re: Rising cost of feed- do your home work
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2011, 09:47:14 am »
Bakery products are generally full of crap too homogenised goodness knows what and e-numbers to mention a few.  breads a good filler but thats about it. Old stock get it but not my growers.
Mandy  :pig:

FiB

  • Joined Sep 2011
  • Bala, North Wales
    • Facebook
Re: Rising cost of feed- do your home work
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2011, 11:06:58 am »
We have started off with the pig nuts stocked by our local farmers co-op (Lineage) - is there a big difference in brand compositions - I would rather feed a naturalish feed than a chemical concoction?  We are not organic but I want to investigate that route and move towards it.  Would it be worth buying bulk (we only have 4 at the moment, so not sure how quickly the nutrient values deteriorate).   Anyone recommend a bulk (ish) supplier in North wales?  We are supplementing with the usual fruit and veg surplesses and quickly learning what they love (squashes cabbage and apples) and hate (radish, onions, lemons) - is there a list of do's and dont's foods on this forum that anyone can sign post - I had heard that parsnips and swede are a no no, - but cant find out if this is myth or true.  (thanks for the science behind the potatoes, Robbie). 

Liquidator

  • Joined Dec 2010
  • Dornoch, Sutherland, Highlands
  • It's a Landrover thing, you wouldn't understand :)
    • Ospisdale Herd of Gloucestershire Old Spots
Re: Rising cost of feed- do your home work
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2011, 12:25:18 pm »
Have to agree with Happy Hippy regarding East Coast Viners (ECV). I shopped around and they are the best per tonne delivered. I use the 25kg bags, so it's 40 to a pallet. I also use them for my duck and hen food, as they are by far the cheapest. I think that's it is even cheaper if you are able to take a bulk delivery of loose pig nuts.

ECV are great to deal with and very prompt at getting the order out for delivery. Also, I had 2 bags of mouldy food in one of my delivery's and they replaced them FOC.

A neighbouring crofter feeds her pigs a sort of powder, almost like flour, which she gets made up specially and I don't know how her pigs survive on it as there doesn't appear to be any substance to it.

Does anyone else use a powder?

I don't feed parsnips but I do feed turnips and potatoes when they are available, also the fallen apples from the orchard, they love them.  :)



You gotta ask yourself, 'Do I feel lucky'?

robert waddell

  • Guest
Re: Rising cost of feed- do your home work
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2011, 12:40:47 pm »
the powder is meal and just the same as your nuts thats pig nuts just in a different form :farmer:

RobbyM

  • Joined Oct 2009
Re: Rising cost of feed- do your home work
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2011, 02:02:18 pm »
FiB......nothing wrong in feeding parsnips or swede, these are a great source of fibre,vitamins and minerals pretty similar to potatoes only major problem is palatability, especially if fed raw, but cooked chopped and included in smallish quantities with other veg can be a good filler.

robert waddell

  • Guest
Re: Rising cost of feed- do your home work
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2011, 02:15:05 pm »
as a side note turnips and hay fed to cattle can fatten as good as cattle fed on silage
turnips/swedes contain 90% water but as one farmer said its damn good water :farmer:

feldar

  • Joined Apr 2011
  • lymington hampshire
Re: Rising cost of feed- do your home work
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2011, 02:23:29 pm »
Sheep also fatten well on turnips. My OH remembers when they used to collect all waste food from the army camp and boil it up in great big vats for the pigs on his farm. Said it was the best conditioner ever

Blonde

  • Joined Mar 2011
Re: Rising cost of feed- do your home work
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2011, 03:34:20 pm »
Hi all, I learned something very interesting today at uni- pigs need 9 amino acids obtained in there occurring form to be able to form protien on a cellular level- for growth and repair- (food has different combinations of these amino acids apart from eggs- they contain all- but are high in fat- and soya contains all essential amino acids!)  now I had been feeding some pigs on a mix of breads and cakes from a bakery- after checking this with DEFRA and being ok'd) I expected them to romp on the pig nuts to bread ratio was 2:1 bread is a good source of protien and carbs from the wheat flour. But though they were happy they just weren't growing at the rate we expected. I now know wheat and other cereals are an incomplete protien as it does not contain lycine! A major factor in growth- but this is naturally occurring in pulses- so by using cereal and pulses (beans, peas and lentils) they can get all the nutrients required- and on top of pig nuts make a cheaper food stuff- now I'm not a food scientist so I still use majority pig nuts but supplement with cereals and pulses snd fresh greens from fodder crops to bulk out feeds!
Oats and Rice have the highest lysine content as far as cereals go..... Lysine helps with lowering back fat in your pigs as well as the use of Chromium.

 

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