[white-blazes]

I give waste from my kitchen.

[HappyHippy]

I've got a funny feeling that wouldn't be enough of a safeguard for animal health to be happy with your set up. 
Sorry 

[white-blazes]

I've got a funny feeling that wouldn't be enough of a safeguard for animal health to be happy with your set up. 
Sorry 

Really?

you can feed veg from a kitchen IF IT HAS A SEPERATE VEG PREPARATION KITCHEN OR AREA

Which is what my workplace has HH

[HappyHippy]

Sorry, didn't mean to offend !
If you & your AHO are happy with the set up that's all that really matters.
What do I know ? 

[oaklandspigs]

If you live in England or Wales, it is illegal to feed anything that has been in a kitchen, both commercial and domestic, and whether vegetarian or not.  This comes under the Animal by-Products Regulations (2005 in England and 2006 in Wales).

Defra's guide to new pig keepers also states this.

http://www.defra.gov.uk/publications/files/pb13647-pig-keepers-guide.pdf

As far as I am aware these rules are EU wide, and unless the Scottish Government is interpreting them differently Robert's assertion is not correct, or at best only correct for Scotland..

It is legal to take say a cauliflower from your veg patch, cut off the leaves in your greenhouse, and then  feed these to your pigs, as they have not been inside your kitchen.  This is not the same as a food prep area of a commercial or domestic kitchen.

[HappyHippy]

Thank you Robin  I was begining to think I had imagined the legislation 
And the rules are the same for Scotland (from SEERAD's Guide to Keeping pigs) It is illegal to feed any pig any catering waste (including used cooking oil) from restaurants, kitchens (both household and central), and other catering facilities even if those establishments cater solely for vegetarians.

[Blonde]

Hi guys,
           A local farmer has offered me 2 tons of apples from his orchard. I dont have that many pigs at the moment. 4 sows 1 boar and 20 weaners. What i am wondering is would it be safe to replace most of the pigs diet with apples and also how long should these apples keep.

Regards Patrick

Well I would take the 2 ton of apples, slice them and dry them and feed them  out at your leisure to your pigs, mixed  with their pellets and or grain.   I know grain and feed is expensive and it seems such a wast  to just compost them or make them in to cider to feed back to he pigs to have them running around in a drunken state.  I calit cheap feed.

[Mel Rice]

s to keeping the apples it depends on the type. Some go very quickly otherd sort of shrivel. Use ones with holes first then dents/bruises then save the OK looking ones till last.   Cider is lovely and very easy to make!!..The pigs can still have the squezed fruit but you get the booze!

[robert waddell]

thank you oaklands for posting the link to the defra legislation         if you click the link and procede to page 10 first para this puts the whole issue to rest  YOU CAN FEED VEG FROM DESIGNATED VEG PREP AREAS

[HappyHippy]

Robert, where do you see that ? Have you been drinking  page 10 - first paragraph refers to walking licences  I've read it over and over and the only bit I can see is this on page 11
"It is permissible to source certain types of former foodstuffs (see above), as well as fruit and vegetables, from non-catering premises for feeding to pigs, but this must only be done from those premises that either do not handle materials banned from being fed to pigs, or that have (HACCP) procedures in place to ensure complete separation from prohibited materials, and these procedures have been agreed with the local authority."
and it then goes on to say
"If you are uncertain about what can and cannot be fed to your pigs please contact your local AHVLA Regional Office for further advice. A list of these offices is available on the internet
(http://animalhealth.defra.gov.uk/about/contact-us/index.htm)
If in doubt don’t feed it.
No matter how tempting it may be to feed catering waste food or other types of banned material to your pigs, this is illegal, and the above controls were introduced for a reason. Contaminated waste food can spread viruses and bacteria, and when infected with a disease like Foot and Mouth pigs can quickly infect other animals. Following these requirements will help keep your animals healthy and will reduce the risk of future outbreaks of disease."

So, if you could copy and paste the bit that says you can feed veg from designated veg. prep areas within kitchens I'd be most obliged 
Karen

[robert waddell]

you have just quoted the para the bit about HACCP 

[oaklandspigs]

OK so I can see which part you are quoting.

The part being talked about there is veg suppliers, supermarkets and those bakeries that do not do catering, and even in these circumstances the EU insists they are registered with agreed procedures (comes under the The Feed (Hygiene and Enforcement)  Regulations 2005 (versions for England, Scotland, NI, and Wales - all say the same) which implements EU Feed hygiene regulation 183/2005)

It is this law that requires HACCP procedures, and registration as a feed business with local authority, who has a statutory duty to ensure safe agreed procedures.

Robert I agree this puts it to rest - if it has agreed procedures with the council, then no problem, if not then not.

W-B - sorry but if your council has not approved, then you cannot feed.




 

[HappyHippy]

you have just quoted the para the bit about HACCP 

Yeah, non-catering Mr Waddell (s'far as I know kitchens are definately catering establishments  )
Definately time for a new pair of spex   

PS - How's the turkey doing ?

[robert waddell]

turkey is doing fine
no glasses are needed
both of you have not read to the end of the para
we are all aware that anything that can be contaminated with meat or meat products are not allowed
BUT I DID NOT WRITE THE LEGISLATION THAT IS QUOTED ONLY READING IT AND INTERPRITING IT

[HappyHippy]

Oh Robert, you're interpreting it wrong ! (Sorry, but you know what I'm like when I think I'm right  )
I've read to the end of the paragraph 5 or 6 times (will probably be saying it in my sleep  )

It's talking about having the HACCP measures in place in NON-CATERING ESTABLISHMENTS (kitchens ARE catering establishments, so even if they have HACCP proceedures in place it's still not allowed)
Places like breweries, vegetable growers/wholesalers, packing plants etc (provided they are registered with the council and follow HACCP guidelines) would be 'allowed' sources as they don't cook anything, but any form of cooking happening on the premises would rule it out.

BUT, like you say - it's not us who make the legislation and it's certainly not up to us to enfore it. It's each and every local animal health officer - so to be 100% sure the best thing to do would be to give them a call 
Karen