[Buffy the eggs layer]

 Hi there readers 


   as some of you will already be aware I recently became a first time cat owner of a skinny young stray ( Polly) and her timid feral kitten ( Toby ).

since her arrival Polly has been neutered, blood tested ( courtesy of the RSPCA) and treated for internal and external parasites and is gaining wight and confidence by the day.

The plan for young Toby (who could not be caught by the RSPCA and escaped the vet) was to trap him at around 4 months old and take him to be neutered and blood tested.

As it took me a week to regain Toby's confidence after the visit from the RSPCA inspector I decided that the thought of trying to trap him for the vet would be a bit traumatic for all of us so I decided that as I had got him back to his previous level of confidence, I may as well spend a further week turning him into a tame and handle able cat.

But now that he can be stroked, picked up and comes to his name, I am having second thoughts about taking him to the vets.I am worried about taking him for the snip at such a young age.

We have a couple of tom cats that occasionally visit us which Polly and Toby respond very defensively to. I know Toms have large territories and wondered what would happen to an immature neutered cat like Toby in a mature and entire cats territory?

Would Toby be better getting the benefit of his hormones before he is cut? So that he has some presence and confidence with other males?

I have known of city cats which are cut young and end up afraid to leave the house as they are in a larger and more dominant cats territory. As Toby and Polly are farm cats who live outside then they would need to defend themselves from other cats.

Any thoughts?

Buffy

[HappyHippy]

I can't answer the question about neutering and age - I've no experience of that I'm afraid.
But we recently got 2 female kittens (they'll be farm cats in the sense that they'll go out hunting, they are from outside farm cats, but we've got them tame and sleeping in the house)
We (or more precisely - me !) were worried about letting them out with the others. Our outside cats are most definately ferel, they come for a feed but you've no chance of getting anywhere near them  And I was worried about how my youngesters would deal with the big, scary, cats outside. There have been a few meetings - mostly arched backs and lots of hissing, but the kittens aren't daft  and they're so much quicker than the older ones. I think, especially if he's castrated, he'll be inclined to do the 'flight' rather than fight. Maybe if he did still have his bits he would try and fight  but I'm not terribly sure.
I think if he's an outside cat, that's unlikely to change by having him castrated.
Hope that helps,
Karen 

[doganjo]

I don't like neutering too young  as I've said before,  But male cats are normally castrated at around 5/6 months.  What age is Toby now?  I would be inclined to leave him a bit longer to build up his confidence before taking him to the vet.  He was traumatised last time and may be so again, so if he is a bit more mature and has built up trust in you he'll be able to stand it better. Hope that helps?

[robert waddell]

buffy the decision is yours in the end              feral cats don't like male competition and kill the males within there territory we had a male kitten killed and the head chewed off that tom never got the leg over again after this              if you let it get to sexual maturity it will still be able to scent mark again it is your cat your decision

[Buffy the eggs layer]

Thanks everyone,

                      its about 4 weeks since his mum and siblings went to the vet. The vet guestimated that they were about 10 weeks old. They were still getting the occasional feed from mum at that point but eating pleanty of the food I put down.

                  The vet suggested that I take Toby back to be snipped at the begining of Dec. But I think that Karens point is the one I'm toying with. Is it better that he is submissive and flees from big male cats or big enough and butch enough to stand his ground and claim his terratory?

                  Although I can pretty much do most things with him he is still unsure about OH so his taming is far from complete in a week. I would want his confidence to be much greater before a trip to the vets which would be achievable by Dec. I would have put him through his pet carrier training by then.

                   Despite being a farm cat who lives outside he spends as much time as he can chasing his ball around the kitchen floor and snoozing in the sunroom while I work on a pastel portrait of this mum. I already suspect him of being a softy so perhaps castration wont make much difference.


Buffy

 

[HappyHippy]

Is it better that he is submissive and flees from big male cats or big enough and butch enough to stand his ground and claim his terratory?
Buffy

I don't think he'll be big enough or strong enough to defend himself against adult males at the size he is now and he's more likely to run. I think if he was neutered this instinct would stay, (no raging sex hormones to mess with his head & ego  ) which might save him getting into trouble. Because without the castration he might just decide he is big enough to take on the dominant Tom 
Just think rowdy young boys trying to prove what big men they are 

[Roxy]

As I have said before, I have a lot of feral/semi feral cats around the farm.  Most of the toms have grown up together, so get on ok ....although there is a boss amongst them!!  None of the males are neutured.

One point I must make, is that, leaving  a tom unneutured, there is the risk of him going off after females, and not returning home.  Three of mine left home - but on the other hand, I have a ginger tom and also a black and whte one, who seem to have taken up residence at our farm.  But, the other toms do not seem to wonder at all - not sure why!!

Most cat owners have their tom neutured at a few months old, and they must cope with the other tom cats?
Once they sort out whose boss, they usually all get on ok.

Entire toms do spray their territory, and the smell is not nice, and they also come back with ears in tatters, and scratched faces.  So neuturing does stop these things from happening!!

[doganjo]

I've just seen my Rio see off another cat in no uncertain terms .  Rio was neutered at 5 months and is not a big cat.  He is lean though, but a big softy with people. But the dogs respect him so he must have a 'presence'

[Roxy]

   Sometimes the smaller cats are the toughies - suppose they have to be to stand up to the big guys!!  One of our GSD thought it would be a good idea to poke her nose against one of the toms - bad idea.  He turned upside down, and used all four feet.  Poor dog came away with a big scratch on the end of her nose.  It taught her a lesson though - never mess with a cat!!

[Buffy the eggs layer]

Thanks everyone,

                 I think that based on your comments he might be better off having the snip at around 5\6 months. Though this might depend on how much more confident I can get him in that time.

 OH can stroke him when hes eating now but Toby is still shy with him. I can do most things with him now but he is sometimes in a jumpy mood even with me.

At the moment he only lays on his back for me to stroke his tummy while he holds my hand and licks my fingers. When he lets OH do it too Il be happy that hes gained his confidence with men.

Buffy

[SallyintNorth]

Entire toms do spray their territory, and the smell is not nice, and they also come back with ears in tatters, and scratched faces.  So neuturing does stop these things from happening!!

Not always...  I have always had all my male cats neutered at about 6 months.  One in particular (as it happen, it was Mix -the one that Polly looks very like) continued scent marking and was very territorial.  He had a lot of fights in his life, I spent a lot of time cleansing wounds with saline.  (After a few course of antibiotics the vet recommended saline treatment first and only go in for antibiotics if it got really infected.  Saved a fortune...)

So maybe if you don't want the male behaviours, earlier than 6 months would be best.  If he's 14 weeks now, beginning of Dec would be what, 24 weeks?  So probably best not to leave it much longer than that.

It sounds like you are doing a great job getting him trusting and tame.  I wouldn't worry about the op, none of my boys have seemed to be much bothered by it.  (Unlike dogs, who always seem to know you've emptied their pockets while they were asleep... mind, my dogs have been rescues and had theirs removed as adults, which probably makes the difference.)

[Roxy]

I suppose if they are kept entire until late, then the territorial instinct to spray is already there......and if you are going to castrate, then earlier rather than later would be better.  One of my toms regularly sprays my farm jacket - and quite often I have put it on, and not realised for a while what that awful smell following me around is!!

[skidley]

I would aim for 5/6months, as he is less likely to develop the unwanted sexual characteristics like spraying and straying, which in turn reduces the risk of him contracting fiv or felv when fighting or mating. Assuming his blood tests all clear.

[robert waddell]

six months is i think to late our cat had his nads of at six months and he can still use his scent gland at the side of his arsehole

[Buffy the eggs layer]

Right Then!

   5 months it is! I will order my voucher from the RSPCA and take him at the end of Nov.

Oooh, Ive just thought of another question...., What do you do with farm cats on bonfire night

Buffy