[violet]

 I'll try & be brief.

Sow ( 2 y.o. 3rd litter) farrowed last night. 1st 2 took ages, followed by placenta, 3rd born with placenta, then a 4th.
I had assumed that this would be a small litter as this took well over 3 hours.
She then turned and over the next hour & half produced another 7 piglets. Had a massive contraction - stood up & lay on her belly ( she's learnt to do this to control piglets access to milk after she fed her first litter on demand! ), I assumed it would be the afterbirth next so went & did a few jobs for 10 minutes came back to find another piglet! Waited half an hour - nothing she was doing her best to sleep. Left her at 3 this morning - no after birth at 6am or 8am so have administered antibiotics ( I did an internal after 2nd piglet) and oxytocin. Not 'till 5 this afternoon due to distance of travel to vets & then having to organise restraint. She has since passed a small amount of afterbirth. Not as much as I would expect considering that it's after 8 piglets, but in total the amount she has passed throughout farrowing is about normal in my experience.
So should I administer more oxytocin? The vet suggested more after 3 hours if nothing happened - but this was different advice from another vet in the same practise!

Abit confused & concerned - cheers folks

 

[HappyHippy]

Is it possible that in your absence she's eaten some of it ?
It certainly won't harm her to have a second jab of oxy, but if she's looking content, settled and is feeding the piglets I might be tempted to leave her be. BUT that's only my opinion. You have the oxy, if she starts to show any signs of distress, discomfort etc you could dose her then.
Go with your gut 
Congratulations on your new arrivals 
Karen 

[violet]

Thanks Karen,

12  and she's a tammie - so a big litter bless her.

I had thought she might have eaten it, but she never has before & I like to give my animals the opportunity to do so. There were no other fluid signs & I'd cleared everything up & use sawdust for farrowing. But you just never know.......

But I've come to the same conclusion as you. She's been really quite restless today, which isn't like her & tonight ( just popped out to visit her) is back to her normal mumsy self lying feeding her piglets quite content.

So thanks again Karen,
Take Care 

[Tiva Diva]

A further shot of oxytocin will not do any harm in these circumstances. It's a natural hormone that sows produce themselves when piglets suckle. But by now it's getting a little late...... I'd watch her rear end for any discharge or pus, and if there is any I'd give her a shot of oxytocin and of penicillin.
Pigs can be funny with afterbirths. One of ours who has always eaten hers before just left it last time. Maybe it was the weather (a really hot day) or maybe she just didn't feel like it!

[Fowgill Farm]

I'd go with Tiva Diva on this one. Chances are a  lot of the afterbirth came out during the actual birthing process of the piglets.
HTH
Mandy

[violet]

Thanks folks,

Well it now seems that a 13th live piglet has been born. I'm assuming that this has been since the oxytocin shot. I was with during the farrowing & counted 12 - she squashed one ( I thought I'd miscounted at first until I found it) and then just before we gave her the shots I found another dead. When I went back down & collected the bit of afterbirth last night, I counted 10 piglets - definately - they were all lined up suckling as pretty as a picture.
This morning there are 11!
She is definately contracting again & thrashing her tail as if she is trying to have another piglet. I'm assuming a stillbirth. So I am going ahead with another shot of oxytocin. The antibiotic she had was long acting so that should cover her for three days.
This is just so wierd - will keep you posted.

[HappyHippy]

'Tis a bit unusual, but not completely unheard of.
That's the trouble with pigs - they've not read the books, so don't know what they're supposed to do 
Oxytocin makes the womb contract, hence your 'extra' piglet  This could be another, or it could be the afterbirth (again !)
Oxytocin is definately the way to go, but if she's still struggling, you might have to intervene again.
Keeping everything crossed for you 
Karen x

[Tudful Tamworths]

Hi Violet,
Sorry I'm so late picking up on this threat. You were absolutely right to go with the oxytocin (of course, after doing an internal exam to check for blockages first). Glad the litter is doing well so far. Good luck and give me a call if you want a chat. Not sure if I can be of any help, but plenty of moral support and previous experience available!  07846 449023.

[violet]

She's fine.
Thank you so much for your support & advice Karen & Liz.
I finished the oxytocin course as recomended by the vet i.e. 2 1ml injections 3 hours apart. Originally it was three, but not if something happened and something did happen after the first one. Nothing else happened after the 2nd & 3rd, but she pee'd alot even in side the arc which isn't like her at all - she is just so clean  no matter how knackered she is - and had lots of discharge pus coloured at first followed by milky white -  it is pretty much normal now.
Fortunately she didn't need restraining for these two jabs.

So all's well.
13 is a huge number for a Tamworth isn't it. Sadly she's squashed 2, one when I went off for the 10 mins & she stretched out for number 12,  & we found another just before we went to give her her first jab - she had just been so restless.

I am concerned though about the length of time the first four took and what it may mean for future litters. She had one stillborn in her previous litter, but I know there was nothing I could do to have prevented that ( I was there). Other than that her farrowing has been straightforward & more like the last 8. She's still young, could it just be a one off?

[HappyHippy]

It's my understanding (and I've got to stress that I could be wrong) is that gilts with their first litter will produce a fairly small litter, but subsequent farrowings will result in bigger litters, up to a point when the sow is getting a bit older and then they'll start to drop off again.
Litter sizes can drop if the sow is not being bred regularly or if she's not in tip top condition - the fact you've had a good litter must mean you're doing everything right 

As for the farrowing itself - were the first 4 bigger than the rest ? Maybe 2 were trying to get out together and it resulted in a blockage (that happened with mine once - nothing for nearly an hour, then a big one followed 2 minutes later by a small one) The fact that she pee'd a lot sounds like there might have been more pressure on the bladder  I don't know if you'll be able to figure out why or whether it will happen again, I certainly wouldn't be put off from breeding from her though - she sounds like a great pig 
Just being nosey here (so you don't have to tell me  ) How many functioning teats does she have ? How many litters has she had before ? Did you AI or use a boar ? Are you breeding within the same bloodlines or outwith them ? I'm just storing it all away in my brain for future reference 

Do you have photos ? Would love to see them 
Karen 

[Mrs pig]

for future litters from this sow I would suggest you check the condition of her as overweight sows often have difficulty farrowing no matter what parity or age... she only wants to be CS 2.5 - 3 at farrwoing and any other stage - if she is larger then this may ahve caused the problem and length of time during farrowing.  If it continues again - you may have to retire her from breeding as this will obviosuly impact on the pigelts - sows only have colostrum for approx 6 hours then it starts to reduce dramatically - so piglets born late get much less than they should....   

[Tudful Tamworths]

Congratulations on such a good litter. A total of 13 with Tamworths isn't unusual, but it's to be applauded! Good luck with them all x

[violet]

I haven't been back here for ages - sorry folks. You've asked me questions!

Karen, she has (at least) 12 teats each side ( she has one false one too on one side), but she's only using 10 on each side now. The piglets were using them all, but I guess as they get bigger it's easier for them to be top & bottom ( i'm sure that makes sense). She was from a litter of 11. This is her third litter. Her first litter was by A.I, and she had eight, her 2nd & 3rd litter were by boar & her last litter was 11 (10 live & 1 stillborn). Even with that last litter there was only 30 mins between the previous pig & the stillborn one - I had just decided to do an internal, which must have helped her contractions. I think that you're right Karen the first four were larger - well it was more like that most of the last ones were  noticably smaller - not that you can tell now!
Mrs Pig, she doesn't get over weight. In fact she's rather a worry to me. She's such a good Mum, but she puts everthing into milk. Her first litter she was feeding on demand & we were feeding her 16 kilos of food a day & she was still losing weight. She has learnt to lie on her belly to hide her teats from the piglets now & we don't worry so much, but we still feed her more than reccomended - but she still loses weight. Her sister doesn't lose an inch - her piglets don't get as chubby as quickly - but the comparison helps, as I know I'm not doing anything wrong & it's just the individual animal. But I'm going to have to wean these early & give her at least a couple of months rest & recreation. So I'm concerned for the opposite reasons. She just seems so tired with this litter & not bouncing back like with the previous ones. On one hand I'm not surprised, but on the other I'm concerned that I may have to retire her - she is only just over 2 years old.
Thanks Liz, I'm chuffed, but was secretly hoping for a small litter! I may take you up on your offer for a chat though, for as I just explained briefly to Mrs Pig, I'm concerned I may have to retire her. 

[robert waddell]

16 kilos a day     she must have been skittering it out her
have you tried worming her   with injectable wormer
some pigs are naturally skinny if you leave her for months before you get her back in pig she may not get in pig or have a reduced litter size
if she has 12 teats each side DONT cull her you have something unique

[HappyHippy]

I think maybe Violet means 16 pounds a day  Cos 16 Kg would be almost a full bag 
I'd agree with Robert about the worming, but some pigs do just put everything into their piglets and 'milk off their backs' - my two new Large Blacks were both very skinny when they arrived here and I'm wondering if they'll do the same thing once farrowed, only time will tell.....
12 teats (on each side ?) either way, she's likely to continue having big litters  Maybe next time round (if she doesn't retire) you could try weaning some of the bigger piglets a bit earlier depending on how they and mum are doing at the time ?
Do you have photo's ? 
Karen