Author Topic: cheap pig feed ???? (Read 13846 times)

Berkshire Boy · « **on:** July 11, 2011, 08:28:27 pm »

A mate of mine who keeps a couple of pigs phoned me tonight to say he had found some cheap pig feed from a local farmer. I went round to have a look, it is grains, pencils molasses and broken biscuits. The thing that concerns me is that there is chocolate in there as well. If you look through it you can see pieces of Kit Kat or similar. Is this legal?

shetlandpaul · « **Reply #1 on:** July 11, 2011, 08:37:51 pm »

probably. does he have the feed data with it. is it balanced.

Berkshire Boy · « **Reply #2 on:** July 11, 2011, 08:47:19 pm »

That is the question. I said this to my mate, what is the protein level etc all I get is "its cheap". I said its not cheap if you have to feed them twice as much to get the same growth. Is it legal though with chocolate in it, doesn't that have animal bi products in it?

Beewyched · « **Reply #3 on:** July 11, 2011, 08:54:11 pm »

Interesting topic - I was reading something recently that over in America a lot of commercial pig producers are sourcing factory scraps such as biscuits, noodles, chocolates etc to feed their stock, as the price of wheat has gone through the roof because of ethanol subsidies.

I would imagine what your being offered is legal ( it's ok to feed pigs bread & cakes from the supermarket that's got milk, eggs etc in them), but as Paul says you need to know the balance of minerals, proteins etc is ok for your pigs. Not sure if they'd digest the whole grains very well either. I suppose you could use it to enhance your pig feed, not replace it entirely.

Berkshire Boy · « **Reply #4 on:** July 11, 2011, 09:06:37 pm »

To be honest it wouldn't enhance my feed, I use a grain feed with molasses etc which is very good. It would be change over or not. It is about £50 a ton cheaper and as I use about 24 ton a year it is quite a saving, but its the quality that concerns me. I will have to go and see the farmer myself and see what the protein level etc is.

little blue · « **Reply #5 on:** July 11, 2011, 10:38:47 pm »

please, keep us posted.

when we had our weaners, I asked for a bit of the food they were used to. that smelt really sweet, molasses and chocolately.

They were from a big place so I guess they would have to keep to the rules...

shetlandpaul · « **Reply #6 on:** July 12, 2011, 08:55:11 am »

i know that a number of feeds use bakery bye products. have a look at chuck feed. i am guessing you could mix it with you other feed and see how they do. how does your friends pigs cope on it. plus a saving of a £1000 a year could mean that you could get a vit/mineral powder to add to the mix. however too low a protean level and its going to take longer to reach there goal weights. maybe worth getting it tested it would still be a lot cheaper even if you had to chuck some peas or something else into it.

oaklandspigs · « **Reply #7 on:** July 12, 2011, 07:13:43 pm »

BB,

4 aspects to consider here

Is it legal?
Is it safe?
Is it healthy?
Is it cost effective?

Is it Legal

2 bits here - 1. is he obtaining it legally?, and 2. can he supply you?

1. His source would come under EU 183/2005 the Feed Hygiene Regulations, under which the source becomes a feed business operator, who has to comply with the principles of HACCP. The source would also need to register as a feed busines operator with the local council.

2. Can he supply you ? The regs state "In accordance with the principles of proportionality and subsidiarity, Community rules should not apply to certain cases of private domestic production of feed and feeding of certain animals, nor to the direct supply of small quantities of primary production of feed at local level" However broken biscuits would not constitite "primary production" so he would need to register as a feed business operator, and comply with HACCP principles.

In both cases the supplier (source and local farmer) would need to be happy that they comply with the Animal By-products Regulations 2005, in particular with Part 3 which deals with catering waste and feeding of animals to animals.

Is it Safe?

EU 183/2005 puts the responsibility for feed safety firmly onto the supplier, but as buyer you would want to be happy that the feed has not got contaminated in any way (how stored? and how transported?) that it is subject to rotation (hasn't gone moudly in the bottom of the bin), hasn't got in contact with chemicals, rat poison etc.

You would also want to know what was in it to ensure that nothing that could harm the pigs was in it

Finally you would want to consider disease control - ie picking up feed from his farm means you are likely to get whatever his herd has got - so bio-security is a serious consideration

Is it healthy?

It is highly unlikely that this mix would be a balanced diet, and you will want to consider what stock you feed it to. Growing piglets need not just crude protein, but the right type of protein, and a mix like this is highly unlikely to contain this. Yes your piglets will grow, but without the right type of protein, then much of the feed is expelled as nitrogen compounds and just wasted. This is why animo acids such as Lysine are added to feed.
For sow maintenance a lower protein level is needed (as this is cell replacement not muscle growth), so a less fit feed is needed. But you will still need to think about Lipids, carbohydrates, protein, vitamins and minerals that pigs need.

An unbalanced feed will at best be wasted feed, and is quite likely to just grow fat not muscle !

Is it cost effective

Free food is generally cost effective, as if it takes 10 months to grow rather than 6, it has only cost you bedding and water. But if you are paying money, as soon as you start feeding a less than optimum diet, then the length of time vs. fat, vs cost equation comes in.

So lots of things to consider

Now don't let me put you off, but the "there must be a cheaper way" thread comes up quite often, and frankly if we could do it cheaper then we would all be at it, and there would be no bags of pig feed

Sylvia · « **Reply #8 on:** July 12, 2011, 08:18:06 pm »

What do you think about greengrocer's waste and grass as a diet?

goosepimple · « **Reply #9 on:** July 12, 2011, 09:05:00 pm »

I was told from a DEFRA person that they shouldn't have anything that has passed through a kitchen. We used to get all the spent veg from a veg wholesalers - some of the stuff we used ourselves as it was only broken - we got LOADS every week in return for giving them some sausages at the end it helped a lot, it does get expensive feeding piggies.

Berkshire Boy · « **Reply #10 on:** July 13, 2011, 08:49:12 am »

Thanks for that Oaklands, I think I will stick with what I know. At the end of the day it is not just about cost I am trying to produce quality pigs and am not prepared to compromise that.
There are other ways to save a few pennies and still produce quality pork by better management of the herd.

shetlandpaul · « **Reply #11 on:** July 13, 2011, 09:02:51 am »

easiest way would be to check with his supplier.you never know it may be good enough.

sabrina · « **Reply #12 on:** July 16, 2011, 03:13:21 pm »

Neil told me to get bruised barley for my two new weaners it was £10 a bag but I also bought sow and weaner nuts at £8.95 per bag. Feeding anything that was full of sugar like biscuits cannot be a very healthy diet. Veg and fruit plus correct balanced pig food as far as I am concerned is the only way to go.