[Fieldfare]

Hi I am narrowing my search down to a 2nd hand Japanese compact tractor (mainly for topping/rough mowing of an orchard/carrying the odd 'thing'/towing a small trailer- all on about 7 acres). I feel that I would like a small, nimble machine. Most of my land is hilly (10 degrees, a small bit of 20 degrees and the odd 30 degree patch). And the odd 'knobbly' patch- which can be smoothed. Local farmers seem to use larger tractors on similar or worse hills so am I worrying too much? (I have never driven a tractor before so I am making sure I get the right machine).

Also which make (and HP would you think fit my needs).

Any pointers that you folks can give would be really helpful.

cheers

[Fleecewife]

My OH tipped our Siromer with the forklift high, plus load (not one of his on-the-ball days  ), when a front wheel went into a hole.  So no, you are not worrying too much.  I think I am right in saying that the old kinds of tractor with the front wheels close together are prone to that as well, but that is not what you are looking for.  It would be sensible to attend a Health and Safety course, and a tractor driving course,  before you buy and drive your tractor.  There are so many dangers involved with tractors, such as pto shafts, that you need to know as much as you can before you get one. (we are all supposed to go on a H&S course anyway and they do emphasise the tractor and quad accidents to catch your attention).
Apart from the tipping accident, our Siromer has been great - think it's 22 hp.  We didn't buy it with the front loader on but we eventually realised we would have to get one and that is the most useful bit, for turning compost heaps, lifting heavy things, carrying things around when we don't want to use the trailer and the backbox is full (remembering to carry it with the front loader low  ) We also have a pto-driven rotavator attachment which has been very useful, a plough which we used a lot at first but not much now, a roller and rakes, and a very useful topper.
What it can't do is run the hay mower, tedder or baler - fortunately we have an ancient David Brown which does those things for us once a year but doesn't get used much otherwise - except in the tipping incident when a hefty shove from the DB put the Siromer back on its feet 

[Fieldfare]

Hi thanks Fleecewife. OK- a friend has now put a 'spanner in the works' and has suggested i actually go for a grey ferguson diesel. Would they be a better option than a 4WD Japanese one? Essentially I want to use a topper on between 10 and 20 degree slopes and for topping in an orchhard (10ft between trees), I'm really confused now as to what to go for! Any help would be welcome.

cheers,

[hughesy]

Whatever you decide remember that it's operator error that tips a tractor over, not the tractor, or the ground. The centre of gravity changes radically when implements are fitted even if they're low down like a topper or a plough. If in doubt get some training, better to be safe than sorry.

[starcana]

we were clearing a very steep field a couple of years ago (clearing it of bramble and bracken) and bought a second hand compact tractor with a cutting deck. It did the job but OH was never comfortable, always thinking he was about to tip over (we couldn't afford the 4wd Kubota BX2200 that we really wanted!). He used it for one year, we then got our money back on it when we sold it and he now uses a walk behind Ferris which he is very pleased with. It's what most council's use for steep verges etc. Goes at 6mph and cuts beautifully. Worth considering if you're quite fit.

[Fleecewife]

Hi Fieldfare.  It's really my OH who should be replying to this, or Fergie who as his avatar suggests is into such things    My understanding is that old Fergies, wonderful though they are, need Fergie implements, or at least those with the right fittings, so modern equipment such as a new topper wouldn't fit.  We chose our Chinese tractor for reliability (Fergies are very old now so you need to be good at maintenance) and for availability of implements - and for price of course.  Having a grey Fergie sort of goes with the smallholding life, but unless you are prepared to do a lot of mechanical work on it, usually when you most need it, you might be better with a Chinese one.  Incidentally Jinma and Siromer come out of the same factory, not sure why they have different names.
Implements for the small Chinese tractors are made in Britain and readily available both new and second hand.
Probably the best thing to do is to go and see both a Fergie and a Chinese equivalent working.

[robert waddell]

fieldfare    the decision is yours we can only advise from personal experience
FERGUSON TRACTORS were British made in the days when they were made to last  yes they have a range of Ferguson implements as did David brown Allis Chalmers international  and ransomes were under the ford umbrella      i am sure i have missed some            essentially they all fit the same tractors not in the same way the jap tractors require special made small implements
an old tractor rebuilt or refurbished is equal to the modern if not better in every way and will still be worth what you paid for it(if you look after it)
at the end of the day it is up to you the buyer and the user

[Norfolk Newby]

I bought a small (20hp) diesel alpine tractor a couple of years ago. It sits lower than a regular tractor and is intended - as the name suggests - for small hilly fields. It is very stable over bumps and hollows, on slopes etc. It also has 4WD on large low pressure tyres so it can go most places with ease.

There are several suppliers of different brands in the UK, e.g.:-

http://www.alpinetractors.com/products.asp?prodsect=1
http://ww.bsgtractorsandmachinery.co.uk/epages/es109747.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/es109747_shop/Categories/%22TRACTORS%204%20wheel%22

I got mine second hand from BSG who were very helpful.

Compared to the Chinese or Japanese tractors, they are not cheap. However, they are safer, don't compact the ground as much as a conventional machine and cope well with slopes and soft ground.

Mine is a Goldoni, it is a bit crude (agricultural?) with a noisy 2 cylinder air cooled diesel engine. It also has a pto and category 1 three point linkage with hydraulic lift. So it can use small implements like toppers. It has a central pivot which allows the axles to swivel and thereby steer. The axles have diff locks so you don't lose power over rough or muddy ground.

There are more powerful models than mine but I have not been limited by power for the smaller type of equipment used with it. So it can do most of the jobs I require.

[waterhouse]

The grey fergie is a great little tractor and was hugely innovative at the time, but that time was 60 years ago.  You can use most modern implements because the hitch is a standard cat 1 and the PTO is the same as a modern tractor.  If you must, get the TEF diesel but you get only 3 forward gears and a single clutch so your topper spins when you lift it.  Any weight in the link box and the front wheels lifts.  Mine scared me.  The MF35 is a better bet with more gears and a double clutch but they're now very pricey.  And still jolly old so more of a hobby.

A quarter of all deaths in the UK workplace take place in farming. I went on a course at Writtle which I would heartily recommend for practical information and awareness.  I want good hydraulics, roll-over protection and 4wd.  The hydraulics drive a loader which is invaluable and pallet forks on the back which beats a link box - I store stuff like feed and firewood on pallets (big bags are great) which makes it trivial to move them around. Roll-over bars are just plain sensible, and 4wd means I can churn the our clay less.

People seem to swear by or at Chinese tractors cos they're brilliant or rubbish. I travelled all over china and hardly ever saw a tractor of any nationality so I think their huge tractor factories are export only.  Japanese tractors are very often grey imports but last and last and last