[Tamsaddle]

Does anyone have any experience of pigs having insufficient milk after birth?   Our Tamworth gilt has just had 10 piglets exactly on time, 115 days after AI.  Unproblematical birth over 4 hours and all afterbirths came out naturally.    But she has little or no milk.   Completely dry udders every day before farrowing and including 6 hours before birth - now there is endless jostling and fighting over teats but only minute amounts of milk come out intermittently.
First vet tried to inject her with Oxytycin but she went mental, so he left.  A second vet managed to get an injection in 36 hours after birth and then there was a really good milk supply for the rest of the afternoon, but next morning it seems to be dried up again.   Meanwhile we are trying to hand feed the piglets goat milk with a baby bottle and teat - this is a nightmare as after 10 seconds or so they start squealing which upsets their mum, and for the first time in her life she has started getting very aggressive, so one has to put the piglet back immediately.   There is a bowl of goats milk in their creep area, but so far none of them has tried drinking from it directly.  Despite everything, they are now 48 hours old and quite lively - lot of fighting generally, and not only over which teat to try and suckle from.   Has anyone else had a similar experience, and do you have any advice you could give us?    This is our first sow to have piglets, so we are very inexperienced, and not how we hoped it would turn out, even though it was amazing to get 10 live piglets from a first pregnancy.       

[Fowgill Farm]

How awful for you to have this happen.
You need the vet back out i'm afraid for more oxytocin to get her to let more milk down, sometimes milk is there and the sow won't let it down because the piglets are bothering her by nipping her teats to feed and obviously its a vicous circle because the more they bite to get fed the more she gets het up and won't let mik down, suggest vet gives her mild sedative (stresnil)at same time as oxytocin, make sure she's drinking plenty and keep any feed light & to minimum (overfeeding can stop milk too) to start off with. Hopefuly by time the stresnil wears off she'll have got going, might be worth getting the vet to leave you an extra oxytocin jab just in case. If you don't want to sedate her you could try the old Guiness mehtod but beware she'll have one stinker of a hangover the next day!
HTH
mandy  
ps let us know how you get on

An aside is have you actually seen the piglets not feed, they normally squabble for a bit and then things quieten down whilst they suckle, the gussles are audible. And as Roberts says below she might only be letting down enough to top them up and then shutting up shop, in which case you may not need the oxytiocin. Spend some time and watch carefully as they'll be feeding very often at the moment.

[robert waddell]

sweatheart stout brings the milk on an chills her out no more than you would drink yourself without getting drunk (replace her water with stout)
the sow only lets milk down for a short time at feeding
they will be getting enough or they will become lethargic
all piglets fight over the milk bar

[Tamsaddle]

Thanks for both replies.   Will certainly try the stout - she is drinking a lot of water anyway.   Useful to know they only let down the milk intermittently.   The other problem with 10 piglets all trying to feed together is there are just not enough teats on one side, the bottom ones are unavailable as she is lying on them, so there is an endless tussle as to who will get on a teat and who not.   Will nevertheless try and get the second oxytocin injection in today that the vet left me yesterday - just hope we don't have to resort to the dreaded snare which we have never used before.   On the first day of trying to inject oxytocin we tried the temptation of nuts and a banana, but she wised up instantly as to what we were trying to do and was having none of it.    Really depressing as previously, before the birth, it wasn't that hard to get injections in at all - with Ivomec and before that for Eripsylelas vaccine.    Useful to know not to feed too much - she seems absolutely ravenous, having finished her normal nuts (2 lbs 12 oz) for breakfast, there is voracious munching of grass and clover - never seen her so hungry before.    Do they not need extra energy to produce enough milk for 10 piglets?    She has very slight scouring at the moment, but only marginal.     Really appreciate your comments - thanks   

[robert waddell]

how many times in the day does she get her feed
her nature before the birth alters after the birth(she is protecting her babies) we had an ironage sow that would have battered down anything in her way if any pigglet squeled not just her ones

[Tamsaddle]

Feed both of them (there is also a saddleback due to give birth first time on May 28) twice a day, at 8.30 am and 5.00 pm - so each pig gets 5 lbs 8 oz nuts a day.    If we have fruit or veg available in the afternoon we reduce nuts by 1 lb nuts : 4lbs veg.   Both pigs are in separate pens and fed separately so they each get only their own amount.    Interesting what you say about behaviour changing after the birth.   When both gilts were together up in the woodland they were best of friends and could be fed together easily.   Since the birth there is very fierce arguing between the saddleback's and tamworth's enclosures.

[robert waddell]

the great thing about pigs they are all different pigs cant read or talk  so they have not read the books and we can only guess what is wrong with them
as an older pig keeper i am constantly learning new thing about pigs and am not one for jabbing them for this that and the next thing all pigs are different all births are different as are the housing that we use
when the saddelback farrows you will see the differences between the pigs and just because there are differences one is not right and the other wrong
we are all learning

[princesspiggy]

  Interesting what you say about behaviour changing after the birth. 

dorothy was really foul tempered during the first few weeks of pregnancy.(still have the scar!) i knew she was pregnant just by her temperment change. shes ok now but itl be interesting to see how she'l be with the birth. il keep my running shoes on ...lol

[Tudful Tamworths]

As someone said earlier, if they're lively, they are probably getting enough milk. A couple of years back, I had a gilt whose first litter bit her nipples so badly it looked like they had healed up and sealed over, and they were squabbling. I was really worried about them, and took advice about putting milk substitute down for them to lap. Then someone said that, when the pigs started suckling the scabs (sorry if anyone is eating) would come off and let the milk through.
They all stayed fit and healthy throughout the time they were with their mother and turned out to be great piglets.
I would just keep an eye on the behaviour of both sow and litter and see how things go.
One word of advice about injecting: get a Slap Shot. A damned sight easier than using a normal syringe. Stick the needle in, the pig automatically moves away, but the you still have the syringe in your hand, hit the plunger, and the vaccine or whatever goes down the long tube between needle and syringe and gets through. For those who haven't seen one, it's basically a long piece of plastic screw-in tube which fits between the needle and the syringe. About £20 but worth its weight in gold.
Good luck and let us know how you get on. I've had some very difficult farrowings/litters recently (long story for another time), so I know how you're feeling! Be assured there are a lot of people rooting for you. As Robert says, we are all learning all the time.
All the best
Liz

[Tamsaddle]

Things seem to be going a bit better now.   Yesterday afternoon we got the second Oxytocin injection in, and it does appear that they suckle for much longer at a time after she has had one.    I am most reassured by two comments that if the piglets are lively, which they still are, they must be getting enough nutrition from somewhere.    On several occasions in the past I have been to visit other owners with very newborn litters, and remember banks of quietish piglets suckling for minutes at a time.     Most of the time with our pig there is frantic nudging and rubbing of the tissue all round the teat followed by a maximum of 5 seconds on it, then more pummelling.   At times it looks like the pig is having an intense massage by ten very busy little noses, with nobody on a teat at all.   Any piglet on a teat longer than 5 seconds has fallen asleep, then gets woken up by the pummelling going on next door, and joins in too.   Never seen anything like it.    Presumuably all this pummelling is to make more milk come down?  However, mum pig generally seems to have calmed down a great deal and has made friends with us again, so so far we haven't given her any stout or guinness, and in in between these weird feeding sessions, which are all terminated when the mum gets fed up by really loud squealing and rolls onto her middle, all eleven seem to be resting and sleeping together very calmly.     
Last year I bought a slapshot myself, and even though the principle seems brilliant, the problem I found, especially if it is a small dose, say 2 ml, is all the air in the long tube as well as the medication.   Is there a way around that?
Thanks again for all your comments - beginning to feel much less nervous about it all, and hopeful that all ten will pull through!

[Fowgill Farm]

Glad things seem to be improving.
You say the piglets can only get access to one side of teats, so as she lays down to feed them rub her belly and you'll find she rolls and stretches out more and they should be then able to get at both sides also make sure theres not to much straw getting in their way to get to them.
Pummelling does help bring the milk down and then you'll find they guzzle for a minute or so and then fall asleep!
I hate jabbing too but sometimes its a necessary evil!
Glad things progressing though.
best Mandy