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Author Topic: the right breed?  (Read 5642 times)

peteinwilts

  • Joined Feb 2011
the right breed?
« on: April 18, 2011, 06:52:34 pm »
Hi Guys

I made some sausages for the first time at the weekend as a dummy run and am wondering if I am doing the right thing.

I butchered a one year old Saddleback and ended up with about 60Kg of sausages and as much fat left over.

If I ever want to create a butchery room and do it properly and to be able to sell them as a product (they DO taste great!), due to the fat, the return on the sausages barely covers their food, nevermind the investment of equipment. (I don't mind doing the hours, as I enjoy doing it, and IS only a hobby!)

I have not made sausages properly out of six month old pigs, but imagine it would be roughly the same ratio but scaled down.

I am now wondering if Saddlebacks as a breed are economical to keep for sausages alone?
I may butcher a smaller pig and sell the prime joints as prime joints and make sausages from the rest.

Any tips, opinions and advice would be very welcome.
Cheers
Pete

robert waddell

  • Guest
Re: the right breed?
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2011, 07:22:49 pm »
short of being there by your side i suspect you have done it wrong
sausages have to have fat     what was the depth of fat on its back  so by your weights your pig weighed 120kg dead weight
now i will get it in the neck again but your pig should have weighed more  saddelbacks do get fat  and the main reason you have been overfeeding
again i am going to court controversy here but if you kill at 70kgs the meat costs more per kilo than one killed at 120kgs IF IT IS NOT OVERFED :wave:
now this post will more than likely upset MR PIG and all the other saddelback breeders  but hey ho any pig that is overfed will layer the fat on or s**t the protein right out it :wave:
« Last Edit: April 18, 2011, 07:39:48 pm by lillian waddell »

HappyHippy

  • Guest
Re: the right breed?
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2011, 07:36:33 pm »
I'd say that all the traditional breeds (especially if pure bred) can be prone to get over fat. Especially if, as Lillian says, they're over fed. Ideally you should be able to just feel the ribs, but not the backbone. I give my pigs big areas of land to roam around in to help them stay lean and keep a close eye on the feeding. Have you weighed out 6lbs of pig nuts to see what it actually looks like ? You'd be amazed how many folk don't  ;) hence why overfeeding is so common. And even more so in the case of feeding barley - all adds to the fat at the end.
Don't be disheartened though Pete, it all comes with experience and you'll get there in time. But your comment about the butchery room and profit is spot on I'm afraid :-\ You'll not make huge amounts of cash doing it, but it is better than being stuck in an office all day (well, I think so anyway  ;);D
Karen  :wave:

oaklandspigs

  • Joined Nov 2009
  • East Sussex
    • OaklandsPigs
Re: the right breed?
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2011, 08:55:44 am »
Pete,

I don't think breed is your problem; the following is the result of a saddleback which killed out at 90kg

Cuts of Pork   Total weight
3 Hand joints   3.26 kg
1 Rolled Topside Joint   1.24 kg
2 Chump Joints   2.87 kg
4 Rolled Loin joints   3.92 kg
4 Shoulder joints   5.15 kg
1 Leg of pork   3.93 kg
1 large Leg of Pork   4.96 kg
4 Rolled Belly joints   4.13 kg
2 Silverside joints   1.87 kg
Spring   0.98 kg
   
Fillet   0.46 kg
Knuckle joint   1.22 kg
Spare Ribs   1.61 kg
Belly Strips   3.70 kg
   
8 Top Rump Steaks   2.05 kg
Bag of Shoulder Chops   2.40 kg
Bag of  Loin Chops   1.22 kg
Bag of Boneless Loin Chops   2.66 kg
   
Bags of Pork for casseroles   1.77 kg
Bags of Diced Pork   1.60 kg
Bags of Minced Pork   4.64 kg
   
Bone waste   12.6 kg
Fat & Rind waste   14.6 kg
Head   6.8 kg
   
TOTAL WEIGHT   89.64 kg


Now there are no magic formulas in pig keeping, even the commercial farms spend large amounts of time in tweaking diets, so the following are at best guidelines and some things to think about.

3 factors for you to consider

Age of pig
Amount of feed
Composition of feed

Age of pig
In essence you can kill a gilt pig or castrated boars from 8 weeks to any age and get good to sausages from it.  Uncastrated  Boars run a technical risk of boar taint, but that will start another issue, so will not discuss here.

Like most animals, nature designs a growing process.  So whilst the following items will all grow, the emphasis is firstly on nervous system and bone (creating the framework).  Next the pig will tend to build muscle -  required for transporting the pig (including running away from danger), size (able to defend itself), and feeding (ability to dig/root). Once a pig has reached a certain size, the emphasis is to then lay down fat – as a pig never knows where its next meal is coming from, so storing energy is critical.  This is a very simplistic explanation, and other factors such as sex, time of year (eg more fat in winter) play a part.  I would re-iterate that all three (bone, muscle, fat) happen in parallel, but feed tends to be used differently as the pig grows.

Now the point of the above is that after 6 months of age, a pig has done most of its initial size growing, so tends to put extra feed more into fat than muscle, so whilst it will continue to grow muscle, the ratio tends to change.

So if to get from 8 weeks (weaner)  to 8 months old you use 14 bags of feed at say £8 feed cost would be £112.  To take to 12 months you would use 13 more bags, costing another £102.  During this final 4 months, your pig will not double its muscle, and is very likely to add fat. Kill costs of 2 pigs vs. 1 will not materially affect  the answer as they are much smaller than £100, so you would be much better off taking two pigs to 8 months than one to 12 months.  So the short answer is kill earlier.


Amount of feed

So any excess feeding after 6 months can let the pig run to fat.   Therefore at 6-8 months old, the feed input to meat output is probably at its best.  After that the feed to take it to 12 months old will tend to be more into fat, so if you are to continue to keep, you must watch each pig, and adjust feed to ensure you are not just laying fat down.  In winter, make sure bedding is sufficient, as if not, the pig will add fat for warmth.

You need to feel each pig regularly and adjust feed.  This will let you get the best.

Type of feed

Pigs build fat/muscle/bone from proteins.  Proteins are made from amino acids, and both the composition and the ratio needed for fat/muscle/bone is different.

For muscle 20 amino acids are needed.  12 of these the pigs can make itself, several  others are found in almost all food, but there are a few key ones that pigs need.  Lysine is the most often absent amino acid in raw pig feeds (wild boar get this from eating meat – carrion or killed). After that the most likely difficient are Threonine, Methionine, then tryptophan, then valine, then isoleucine.

Lysine is added to most commercial pig feed, but may not be present or sufficiently present in home mixes, or if other foods are used regularly in significant amounts (eg veg).  

If the feed hasn’t the right composition for muscle, it may still be used for making fat (different amino acids and ratios needed)  or poo’ed out as waste.

If you are not worried about cost as such, any bought in pig feed will grow a pig over time, and with watching fat, you can easily grow a great product.  However as you are saying that you want a profit, then having the right feeds at the right time (eg grower and finisher) will get you more muscle and  less risk of fat than say a sow mix, home mix or substituted foods.




So for a more profitable solution for sausages take off earlier, watch the amount you feed very carefully, and consider different feed regimes.










« Last Edit: April 19, 2011, 09:04:20 am by oaklandspigs »
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peteinwilts

  • Joined Feb 2011
Re: the right breed?
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2011, 09:11:19 am »
Hi Guys

of course when I wrote this I was extremely sleep deprived and my maths head must have got stuck in the grinder... (using a domestic grinder all weekend!)

60Kg (sausages of a one year old pig) x £7 = £420.

At 6 months a pig will eat (at 3Kg a day) pig feed worth up to £86 minus fresh fruit and veg. As the piggies are kept in an orchard and has a dedicated veg patch, this is reduced appropriately.

a one year old pig will have eaten £195's worth minus etc.

once the pig has had the chop(s) and other ingredients bought and used we are probably looking at £300 for a one year old pig, leaving £120 profit.

of course doing things properly with appropriate licences would probably be quite prohibative and would need to do a number of pigs a month to make it worth it due to the investment of kit (and create butchery room) as a hobby... and then it no longer becomes a hobby.

The butcher has offered to do sausages at £2 a pound, which would leave £1.50 a pound = £180. a £15 loss without travelling and abatoir costs.

does anyone sell whole pigs to butchers? would be interesting in the going rate... profit would be reduced (if there is one!), but no licenses required, no equipment, no hassle... but would still make sausages for the familily because it is a nice to do activity!  ;D

thoughts?
Cheers
Pete



peteinwilts

  • Joined Feb 2011
Re: the right breed?
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2011, 09:14:44 am »

great reply oaklands! very useful!

Hilarysmum

  • Joined Oct 2007
Re: the right breed?
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2011, 06:54:57 am »
I have  supplied both butchers and restaurants but find they cut their costs to the bone, (no pun intended) and I am easily left at 0 after all the hard work, it just takes one very small glitch and profit gone.  I am also registered to sell meat direct to public, but thats a long and expensive story.  If you make any profit from your pig, whilst doing it as a hobby thats a bonus.. 

 

robert waddell

  • Guest
Re: the right breed?
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2011, 10:05:11 am »
very informative oaklands i am assuming the pig was yours when it is in great detail?
live weight would Be 110kgs-120 kgs funny how you have fat and rind waste the fat when rendered is the whitest purest cooking fat that is available the rind can be used for covering foul when cooking now IF it was your pig it just shows even you can get it wrong with feeding producing to much fat(from your figures) also the pig being a saddelback  :wave:
even if pigs are killed at 120 kgs they have a lot of growing to do with mature pigs weighing in from 250 kgs- 350 kgs i still subscribe to the idea that killing at 70 kgs the cost per kilo is much higher than taking them to 120 kgs and the last 50 kgs will be achieved quicker than the first 50 kgs we are currently weight recording the hamlops and intend killing at the magical 120 kgs liveweight once they have all gone i will print the full facts for all to peruse :wave:
o one more question you did not say what age the pig was

ambriel

  • Joined Jan 2011
  • Kinlochbervie, NW Sutherland, Scotland
  • Mad, bad, and dangerous to know!
    • Harbour Cottage
Re: the right breed?
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2011, 10:49:01 am »

I'm no expert by any means but I'd have thought slaughtering a pig *just* for sausage making wasn't the best way of going about it, and that you'd take the separate cuts and only make sausages from what was left.

Someone once said to me, the only bit of a pig you can't use is the squeal...

peteinwilts

  • Joined Feb 2011
Re: the right breed?
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2011, 05:30:24 pm »

I am also registered to sell meat direct to public, but thats a long and expensive story.

do tell!.. this is an option i am considering!

oaklandspigs

  • Joined Nov 2009
  • East Sussex
    • OaklandsPigs
Re: the right breed?
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2011, 07:36:48 pm »
Lillian,

Thanks for your comments.

This was one of our pigs, the break down was not meant to be a masterclass in producing pork or how to use every last bit, our business is not in finishing pigs, just an example to try and help. :wave: :wave: :wave:

Will be good to see your figures in due course

www.Oaklandspigs.co.uk
"Perfect Pigs" the complete guide to keeping pigs; One Day Pig Courses in South East;
Weaners for sale - Visit our site for details

robert waddell

  • Guest
Re: the right breed?
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2011, 08:16:47 pm »
just trying to do the same             i think the more people that print a full and frank breakdown of weight gain fat depth age and how they were fed also the breed      is of benefit to all pig producers     this in turn can be used and interpreted by anyone that is fattening pigs
i think we all forget that traditional pig breeds were multi functional and yes the only part that could not be used was the squeak should not be to long to wait for the figures they are at 72 kgs at 22wks with less feeding than is banded about as the required amount :wave:

princesspiggy

  • Guest
Re: the right breed?
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2011, 08:17:54 pm »
fat when rendered is the whitest purest cooking fat that is available

how do u render pig fat into lard for cooking ie like white non-smelly lard that u get in shop.  :wave:

princesspiggy

  • Guest
Re: the right breed?
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2011, 08:20:37 pm »
i think the more people that print a full and frank breakdown of weight gain fat depth age and how they were fed also the breed      is of benefit to all pig producers     this in turn can be used and interpreted by anyone that is fattening pigs
definitely, i was considering saving oaklands breakdown for future reference. things like that help me enormously  :wave: :wave:

robert waddell

  • Guest
Re: the right breed?
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2011, 08:33:05 pm »
the way i was told was cut the fat into squares put in pan on heat and render down this is wrong  :o
put fat through the mincer then add to hot pan some at a time when liquid strain through a flour  sieve to remove the gunk the strained liquid put direct into clean butter tubs allow to cool and the purest whitest cooking fat you can get    when you were down on sunday we could have shown you or sold you some ;) ;) :wave:
forgot to say DON'T squash the gunk out of the sieve as it will go into the virgin fat.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 10:26:52 pm by lillian waddell »

 

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