The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: DeanoT2000 on February 13, 2017, 02:03:54 pm
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Hi! This is my first post and my first foray into Pigkeeping so please be gentle!
Myself and OH have 3 x OSB gilts currently nearing baconer weight and almost ready for the 'chop'. We've researched a local good quality (it would seem) abattoir, arranged the transport, got the slap marking kit, about to actually decide on day 'X' and then arrange relevant eAML type docs, so feeling reasonably happy.
After much research on this and other sites I cannot for the love of me find recent posts on current pricing for rare breed, free range, well looked after pork. I've found a recent post on sausage pricing which I've taken on board (probably going to go for £8-9 per kg) but nothing more recent than 2014 on pricing the rest of the beast.
I've seen commercial outfits (welsh in nature) offering a half pig (albeit the image shows a fair bit less than a real 1/2 pig would yield) for £99! How the hell are they doing that?! Its cost me almost that each in feed to rear ours, never mind initial cost of weaners, transport, bedding etc etc. Now I understand these will probably be generic pink pigs but non the less thats damned cheap.
So, what is the collective wisdom?
Im hoping that we can manage to make sufficient on 5 of the sides to pay for the 6th and therefore we have our pork for the year free(ish).
Many thanks.
Deano
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How are you selling them in halves or joints etc?
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We sell ours for about £10 per kg
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How are you selling them in halves or joints etc?
Hi, TBH not sure as yet. like the idea of 'by the kg' as it makes the math work. Ive had two people ask to buy a half, jointed etc and the going rate seems about £130-150. Im not a tight arse but thats an awful lot of pork for that price as our pigs have a live weight of around 80kg so should have a carcass weight of 55-60kg making a half even after butchery, de-boning etc over 20kg!
Thoughts?
ATB
Deano
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Hi. The prices vary a quite a lot depending on your local market, how direct to customer you are etc. I do my half pigs at around £160 but I only do a small number, they are to friends who put their name down when I get the weaners and the final prices is set based on costs plus 25% (a half of every 2 pigs) I keep to cover the effort space, facilities.
Joints and sausages I do separately at around £9 To £10kg. Don't underestimate the extra cost and effort into selling 20 people a kilo each rather than one person 20kg. For that reason the half pig deal should always look like a good deal!
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Can I ask what 'half a pig' constitutes exactly?
Are people literally giving 50% of the carcass by weight? The contents lists for several of the online pig supplies vary wildly (one includes 22 chops per half pig..... how long is that bloody pig???!!!) and the weights of the carcass vary wildly also.
Mine are currently about 80-85kg by the tape so half a pig could be up to 25kg butchered... @£160 a half thats £6.40 per kg which is pretty p*ss poor.
Costs for weaners, feed, bedding, transport and basic 'kill and cut' etc come in at £250 for each of my three pigs.
Include sausage making and bacon curing overheads and that will probably be closer to £300 per animal.
If the going rate is £160 per half (for example) im practically breaking even...... lets not even go into the cost of slap marking kit, arc repair, electric fencing.....etc.....!
I didnt get into this to make money but I didnt think I'd be making a bloody loss!!
Yours (in a slight depression)
Deano
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Can only answer for myself, in my case a half pig is just that, a half by weight of the returned carcass, includes a fair amount of sausages. My pigs are lighter 70kg maybe by tape and as stated previously my costs work out at around £480 for two pigs so by selling 3 X half at £160 I get one half pig as my 'cut'. Works out about £8kg for the half pig, but as individual joints I do at closer to £10 as more effort, cost of packing etc.
Don't sell cured meat.
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Don't sell cured meat.
do sell cured meat, but charge appropriately. :)
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I sell a half pig at £190, this includes some bacon and sausages, have never had a problem selling at that in fact my customers are all regulars
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Interesting. Many thanks for the replies and views, it will be intesting to see what the three 'not so little' pigs provideafter the big day. Ive booked them in for Mon 27th at Neil James in Raglan and will give some feedback after the fact.
ATB
Deano
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Who is slaughtering Dean? I am currently looking for a mobile butcher used Neil in past the cutting is 'rustic' & in bags - make sure you list what you want accurately you know which cut is which. I had a lad here who cut in old fashioned way who took time and elegance in his ways. Something that is usually missing from home kill butchers.
Im organic my whole pig would be £360 but cant sell around here so given up and just sell to the odd friend and fill our freezer.
I used Simon Cutter from Model farm in Ross - he cut the pigs up very nice and delivered it back to us. I would like to kill local (Neil still kill pigs?) struggle to find good local someone recommended Talgarth but that is one trek for us and back seems incredibly sad.
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Don't sell cured meat.
do sell cured meat, but charge appropriately. :)
Oh I just meant 'I don't sell cured meat'. It was a badly worded statement not a command!
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Neil still does pigs, he did my two last autumn. Dropping off is easy, presentation would be better vac packed rather than bags, rustic is a good analogy. Well worth having sausages!
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Oh that sounds good I was under the impression Neil had stopped pigs saves trip to Havards (thats another story). I will think about him cutting up if I am desperate.
When selling it is imperative if you are raising to high welfare etc the packaging and labeling also has to be excellent too especially if you want to sell at the higher end. Sloppy bags, poor cutting, bags of blood, with 1 label doesnt suffice. Because most people freeze the labeling has to say what is in it and weight. Legally it should state slaughtered in and cut in codes with use by dates but when selling halves etc you can get away with it on the box label.
When selling the whole system has to be excellent and give the impression of quality. The biggest problem we encountered when selling direct over 10 years ago was the butchery and labelling. The butchery was just not up the price we were selling for and I think this lost us customers. Labels need to be freezer proof. You can write these and adhoc selling some butchers do do this for you.
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I have found about £150-160 for half a pig is the current going rate. Yes I have also done the maths and there really is no profit to be made doing this small scale. I think that's why so many people make the sausages as you can add value to those a bit more.
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i think if you're going to have trouble selling cuts get more sausages made, everyone buys sausages. They are our biggest seller by far!
and yes, packaging and presentation is definitely important if you are trying to reach a bit further.
This is us:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/GoHWF-WTeaMI1JOgaJW9d4XFqHO5UBifqLd-3Qgi3DsKgc6F4PejiwmktymBLtLr-b4m5yjx4DqaR1wwz3bfjeE44FpDSyb4uDwf5GXeO2CeR2dGFE2Kj9VVs9iF5uUBWyNlybbFXh-NYjjvesqpzJduzC4LIyEk6ay-FX4ea3dtdO7YJWPoK9TidhVqohOxSkI1UWpnnFOhRv7CClDFQgB2ty2Jy5BEpaocNbtCzMBqILTi51JTUuvcVto69dGkefV3C5MNJzlhw2K-MgBKL-XxBptYx-FX_36HDsA8JBVrwVS9ZtTaGOZq0r0SfzKMXCLRepDfyffMtaMW8QsI4mUWYQWSTskMPFsyeHSgQKAhJZhpbSO2bxaU34K3DC-8vHEdzSMNiRRqre0rH__hEZuDQjxccNyWZ7ljaJSrpdKUc99l41rTL2y1_IXSSnU22Oj49KiuPwwH2JQUC8aXHjG-E-kfs8RPpp2WqnG4Aa5E4Vpwvet2EiQsRJvNV__PoPsVD9rLzpU89j-78BtbDB_Jc5iDyG-reDezckZkE67z22Xq7wp7I7-3kU0QGqwOMCSYAw7rjnedRbWp0FwIKHS-QaC_ko-dwu4VLHjreDShJRS4TSomSQYICNND9Pv_PntZ6Aor3tKZAPpZsBfejc49cqVq1-JgKc-OoRbWYg=w1116-h627-no?.jpg)
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Do you butcher your own stuff/ make own sausages etc green beast?
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no we don't have the time/skill/facilities, we have a private kill butcher do it for us.
Simplifies things regarding EH as well as we never touch the meat
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Well 'Bacon Day' as it has dubbed is swiftly approaching. Slapmarks have been applied (fairly painlessly it has to be said), eAML 2 has been sent, abattior is booked, trailer is booked.... I think we're ready.
Thanks for the info, its been very well received.
However........ I must admit im a bit p*ssed off with some peoples attitude as to cost.... had someone this afternoon do the teeth sucking act while saying '£6.60/kg mates rate? (what a half pig works out at ish)....'I saw it in my local butchers at £5.50/kg'.....! When compared to Tesco Finest (which i suggest ours is at least equal to) at a minimum of £7.00/kg and up??
Some people can take a running jump!!!
Hey ho
ATB
Deano
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I'm near you I think (abergavenny). Take mine to Neil James at Raglan and then transfers to have Huntsham Farm (Symonds Yat) process and pack them. They're excellent. All vackpacked and labelled and boxed. Very helpful, good value and work to your cutting list. I sell a half pig (19kg ish) for £160. Don't worry about the teethsuckers. Important to stick to a decent price and there are people in this area who will pay it.
Martha R
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MarthaR, mine are also headed for Neil at Raglan, can I ask why you're not getting him to process as well? He's quoted (as far as my failing memory can recall) £40 for the basic 'kill and cut' with sausages at £2/kg and bacon curing tbc. I'm planning on having him process 5 halves into basic joints with a good quantity of sausage and half of the loins cured. I'll do the remaining half myself.
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However........ I must admit im a bit p*ssed off with some peoples attitude as to cost.... had someone this afternoon do the teeth sucking act while saying '£6.60/kg mates rate? (what a half pig works out at ish)....'I saw it in my local butchers at £5.50/kg'.....! When compared to Tesco Finest (which i suggest ours is at least equal to) at a minimum of £7.00/kg and up??
Some people can take a running jump!!!
Hey ho
ATB
Deano
Yes welcome to the world of direct sell and selling quality meat - you can only sell to people who are foodies and are compassionate about welfare. Wasting your time with idiots who think they'll be getting a bargain. The reason why we packed up direct sell it was a business in its entirety now we fill the freezer and the odd person have a half. You have to have a good circle of passionate people and excellent selling skills. If its not for you just do it for yourself.
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I'm near you I think (abergavenny). Take mine to Neil James at Raglan and then transfers to have Huntsham Farm (Symonds Yat) process and pack them. They're excellent. All vackpacked and labelled and boxed. Very helpful, good value and work to your cutting list. I sell a half pig (19kg ish) for £160. Don't worry about the teethsuckers. Important to stick to a decent price and there are people in this area who will pay it.
Martha R
Thats interesting but I bet thats costly. I know Richard and had no idea he had started a packing plant but after Cinderford folded he must of been stuck. Im surprised Neil does this but suppose it lightens his load. Can you confirm costings for basic cut please. Im going to do my own bacon.
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MarthaR, mine are also headed for Neil at Raglan, can I ask why you're not getting him to process as well? He's quoted (as far as my failing memory can recall) £40 for the basic 'kill and cut' with sausages at £2/kg and bacon curing tbc. I'm planning on having him process 5 halves into basic joints with a good quantity of sausage and half of the loins cured. I'll do the remaining half myself.
Suppose if your selling to a quality standard its back to the top notch cutting, packing, labelling and box???
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OH picked up the pork on Friday, have to admit we were both excited to see how it went. Girls killed out at 72,73 and 74 kg (a lot less than we got from the tape method of measuring which put them in the 80-85kg range) and roughly probed at 38-45mm fat, which was a little disappointing. Neil the butcher was very complimentary about their condition and said it was more fat than most consumers want but will make amazing sausages.
Got a half back myself for some home butchery practice and spent half of yesterday butchering and packing, Luckily I have access to a decent vacuum packing machine and have re-packed the meat to a better standard and started selling it on. Today is bacon curing and sausage making, cant wait!
Many thanks to all on the site who've helped out with advice at what was a fairly fraught time! We now have two OSB gilts and will be recieving 2 Berkshire gilts when our 'pig move hold' expires.
And the butcher was unsurprisingly right.... the sausages are bloody awesome.
Deano
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Neil did my two last autum about the same dead weight and fat layer, I agree the sausages were the best i've ever eaten, interestingly I had sausage from Neil's catering trailer at Usk show whist they very good I didnt think as good? It could be bias, breed or the amount of fat on the pig?? Were are you getting your weaners from Deano as I will be looking again april/may
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These three (our first pigs) were bought from a lovely lady called Susan Tanner down Glastonbury way. The day I dropped these three off we picked up some OSB weaners locally in Eardisley (15miles west of Hereford) to take pride of place at our Wedding Hog Roast in Jun. They turned out to be older than we wanted so they'll be meeting Neil mid april and our Berkshires will be joining us at the wedding reception! Learnt a lot on the first iteratation and plan to do the following differently:
1) We had ours incorrectly on 'Grower' pellets throughout thier life mistakenly thinking that 'Sow' pellets were inappropriate. On advice we shall convert these onto 'Sow' pellets at some point to slow their growth... this is a marathon not a sprint!
2) We took them to visit Neil too late at almost 28 weeks hoping to acheive good back bacon 'eye'. This didnt happen we just got fat pigs. These ones will be going around 22-24 weeks weight depending. HOWEVER see point 3.
3) We didnt get enough sausages made! Everyone who has bought so far has had a large qty of sausage vs joints/chops. If this continues the fat to lean ratio we accidentally acheived made excellent sausages and if this is a viable option for selling it may be the way to do business.
Every day is a school day...
ATB Deano
2Kg leg joint we've just had for lunch. Good god it was nice!
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We found the sausage and chops sales lead to the sale of the joints from repeat buyers! If I had pigs ready in summer I would have 100% sausage made I think.
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I'm near you I think (abergavenny). Take mine to Neil James at Raglan and then transfers to have Huntsham Farm (Symonds Yat) process and pack them. They're excellent. All vackpacked and labelled and boxed. Very helpful, good value and work to your cutting list. I sell a half pig (19kg ish) for £160. Don't worry about the teethsuckers. Important to stick to a decent price and there are people in this area who will pay it.
Martha R
Thats interesting but I bet thats costly. I know Richard and had no idea he had started a packing plant but after Cinderford folded he must of been stuck. Im surprised Neil does this but suppose it lightens his load. Can you confirm costings for basic cut please. Im going to do my own bacon.
Yes - set up as Cinderford shut I think. He has limited capacity but I pay 50p per kg for cutting and packing and extra obviously for sausages. I think it's great value. And believe Neil is fine with it as he has so much on.
Martha
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Well done Deano I was really pleased to see your outcome (all that lovely pork) but even more pleased you went straight out and bought more pigs
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Cheers mate! I think they will be a constant in my life from now on (especially if OH has any say in it....)
ATB Deano
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congrats it looks great - fat scoring is very difficult and only when you have a weigher and manage their food strictly can you get this spot on as we used to on our spots.
The worst pigs for fat was the Middle White.
I have x3 welsh here which were on top of the mountain on ad-lib to be honest they are huge nearly 8 months. Thats the problem I have come across is sausages - you never make enough! Sausages are the easiest thing to shift.
Vac pack is far superior to bags. Point to mention is labelling on vac pac needs to be good the labels can slide off as the plastic and is no good.
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Thanks! The vac packer isnt mine but ive got it as and when which is a bonus.
The freezer labels say they stick to all packaging... we shall see!
The fat issue is mainly our fault with correct feed regime (we were quite precise) but incorrect feed.. d'oh you live and learn.
We currently have two OSBs @19 weeks and they're on Sow rolls until the big day. Planning to take them to 25-26 weeks and see what difference the lower protein food and 2 weeks less makes to the final product.
The Berkshires we're getting for our wedding hog roast have a similar diet and feed plan although they'll only be 22 weeks when they go. Should I be concerned about that? Smaller pigs are fine for the hog roast as you can supplement with joints etc. I'd rather a leaner smaller pig on the spit and a couple of boned leg joints vs one massive pig with a higher fat percentage as the number of mouths at the wedding isnt going down!!
Thoughts?
Deano