The Accidental Smallholder Forum

Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: maddy on June 14, 2013, 08:07:45 am

Title: Clik or Crovect?
Post by: maddy on June 14, 2013, 08:07:45 am
I have only had my 3 ryeland ewes since November so am unsure what to use.

They now have 10 week old lambs.  The ewes have been shorn.

What should I use as a preventative?  Clik or Crovect.  Do I also spray the lambs? 

Many thanks.
Title: Re: Clik or Crovect?
Post by: lachlanandmarcus on June 14, 2013, 10:04:56 am
Clik. Crovect will treat but not prevents clik will do both. Do the lambs too, ESP the ram lambs as I find they get targeted worse.
Title: Re: Clik or Crovect?
Post by: SallyintNorth on June 14, 2013, 10:35:32 am
Crovect will protect (*) provided you use the correct application method, and will also treat.  It is less environmentally damaging than Clik.  Vetrazin is even less environmentally damaging but protects for a shorter period, so in some areas you may need to repeat before the end of the fly season.  Also, Vetrazin is not a treatment, so you may still need Crovect to treat any that do get struck.

The most important thing is to keep bottoms clean - keep on top of worms and fluke, dag/crutch any dirty bottoms.


(*)
Quote from: NOAH Compendium
Uses

For the treatment and control of headflies. For the treatment of tick infestation with a persistent efficacy of 10 weeks (the majority of ticks killed within 3 hours), and treatment of biting lice in sheep. For the prevention and treatment of blowfly strike on sheep.
Title: Re: Clik or Crovect?
Post by: lachlanandmarcus on June 14, 2013, 12:23:06 pm
Quote from: SallyintNorth on June 14, 2013, 10:35:32 am
Crovect will protect (*) provided you use the correct application method, and will also treat.  It is less environmentally damaging than Clik.  Vetrazin is even less environmentally damaging but protects for a shorter period, so in some areas you may need to repeat before the end of the fly season.  Also, Vetrazin is not a treatment, so you may still need Crovect to treat any that do get struck.

The most important thing is to keep bottoms clean - keep on top of worms and fluke, dag/crutch any dirty bottoms.


(*)
Quote from: NOAH Compendium
Uses

For the treatment and control of headflies. For the treatment of tick infestation with a persistent efficacy of 10 weeks (the majority of ticks killed within 3 hours), and treatment of biting lice in sheep. For the prevention and treatment of blowfly strike on sheep.


That's really interesting! as a number of different experienced sheep people (independently) told me what I posted, they must have been wrong but it's odd they had come to that conclusion.
Title: Re: Clik or Crovect?
Post by: ZaktheLad on June 14, 2013, 12:35:11 pm
I alternate between Dysect and Crovect - Countrywide Farmers had a good deal on Crovect recently with £10 off the retail price and so for once it was cheaper to purchase than the Dysect!  I have never had an issues with Crovect and it most definitely does protect as well as treat - although you must ensure you spray over all areas you want protected, whereas with Dysect, the oiliness of the product means it tends to spread over a greater area itself!   To be honest I prefer Dysect out of the two as the flies go nowhere near the smell.   With Clik you will find that the product does not stop flies laying their eggs on the fleece but does stop the eggs hatching in to maggots.
Title: Re: Clik or Crovect?
Post by: wayfarer on June 14, 2013, 12:47:35 pm
I only have 2 lambs which makes both Clik and Crovect very expensive to buy - even more so if you have to buy an applicator as well.  Is it possible to measure out the dosage and just dribble it along the backbone? Or is there another more cost effective solution to this problem for very small numbers of lambs?
Title: Re: Clik or Crovect?
Post by: smudger on June 14, 2013, 01:18:23 pm
I've just bought crovect and confirm it does 'prevent'. Interestingly Vetrazin does not need preapproval under organic systems so should be the most environmentally effective. Any one used it found it effective or know how it compares?  I have a Click gun but it seems I need to use a Crovect gun, so should really decide to use one product and stick to it.....
Title: Re: Clik or Crovect?
Post by: LouiseG on June 14, 2013, 02:09:31 pm
I use crovect, only have a few sheep so not worth me having clik and crovect, so although you have to do crovect more regularly as it's only a few that's not a worry and as others have said you can use it direct onto strike to kill the maggots whereas you can't with clik.  hope that helps

Title: Re: Clik or Crovect?
Post by: Marches Farmer on June 14, 2013, 02:31:08 pm
You don't need to Clik shorn sheep until the fleece is long enough for the maggots to cling to - about 1cm.  I try to shear in early May, Clik a month later and that lasts until the flies stop laying in the Autumn.  I do the lambs once I see greenbottles - they generally lay first in our area and the other types of fly come in once they can smell the first batch of maggots.
Title: Re: Clik or Crovect?
Post by: ZaktheLad on June 14, 2013, 02:32:13 pm
Wayfarer - with such small numbers I would recommend purchasing a plastic spray bottle from your local garden centre/£1 shop (the type sold for spraying indoor house plants or similar) and then spraying your sheep/lambs over back/shoulders/rump that way.  It is much more cost effective for you and gives a good all-over coverage.  The guns are a huge expense, although the one for use with the Dysect is only circa £18.   
Title: Re: Clik or Crovect?
Post by: SteveHants on June 14, 2013, 02:34:55 pm
It is worth noting that crovect and ectofly are the same chemical, because often ectofly works out a bit cheaper.
Title: Re: Clik or Crovect?
Post by: smudger on June 14, 2013, 02:52:58 pm
I've just done a little comparison since I had both bottles:


I'd say Crovect was a better bet (more varied/ less toxic) but just have to apply more frequently. No idea of cost :-[ . Downside of having an 'account'....




MEDICINECHEMISTRYDOSAGEPROTECTIONWITHDRAWAL - MILKWITHDRAWAL - MEATWITHDRAWAL - SHEARCOMMENTS
CROVECT1.25% w/v cypermethrin5-10ML LAMBS TO 20/40KG; 15-20ML </> 60KG6-8WKS - BLOWFLY, HEADFLY, TICKS, LICEDO NOT USE8 DAYS?USE WITHIN 3 MTHS OF OPENING - TREATS AND PREVENTS. ECTOFLY A CHEAPER ALTERNATIVE.
CLICK5% DICYCLANILSMALL / LARGE LAMBS - 20/25ML; HOGGS / SMALL EWES - 30ML; 50KG+ 35MLBLOW FLY ONLYDO NOT USE40 DAYS12 WKSUSE WITHIN 12 MTHS OF OPENING; HANDLE ALL SHEEP WITH GLOVES
Title: Re: Clik or Crovect?
Post by: EP90 on June 14, 2013, 04:54:00 pm
Quote from: wayfarer on June 14, 2013, 12:47:35 pm
I only have 2 lambs which makes both Clik and Crovect very expensive to buy - even more so if you have to buy an applicator as well.  Is it possible to measure out the dosage and just dribble it along the backbone? Or is there another more cost effective solution to this problem for very small numbers of lambs?

Wayfarer, just to add to Zakthelads post.
I’m in a similar position to you, but looking at the guns they can put out a drizzle or spray depending what’s needed.  I now successfully use one of the spray bottles that cleaning liquid comes in, (shower shine, cillit bang type things). The right one can spray or jet depending on which way you turn the nozzle.  Just measure out the dosage and spray/jet until empty.
Title: Re: Clik or Crovect?
Post by: Bionic on June 14, 2013, 05:19:07 pm
I bought Clik last year for my 5 ewes. I thought it was very expensive for so few BUT it does have a long shelf life (so long as you don't leave in the barn when its too cold) so I am able to use it again this year. I have already done the 4 lambs and the ewes will be done in another week or so as they were only shorn a week back.
Title: Re: Clik or Crovect?
Post by: SallyintNorth on June 14, 2013, 06:15:09 pm
I have used Vetrazin, yes, and found it an effective preventative treatment.  As with Crovect, you do either need to use the correct applicator or, I guess, use a spray bottle to cover the same areas you would as directed with the pukka applicator.
Title: Re: Clik or Crovect?
Post by: shep53 on June 14, 2013, 07:29:24 pm
Quote from: smudger on June 14, 2013, 02:52:58 pm
I've just done a little comparison since I had both bottles:


I'd say Crovect was a better bet (more varied/ less toxic) but just have to apply more frequently.
                                                                                                                                                             While i use both products , i should point out that   CYPERMETHRIN is a nerve toxin, over applying to kill maggots on small/weak lambs can kill them ,  it should not be applied as protection to lambs under 12.5kg , and treated sheep need to be kept away from water courses as it is toxic  to aquatic life . 
Title: Re: Clik or Crovect?
Post by: onnyview on June 14, 2013, 09:53:20 pm
Just something else to add. Crovect will kill live maggots, click will prevent infestation and has no claim to knock down live maggots. But, click has fleece binding technology in it which keeps the product in the fleece for longer, giving longer protection. We did not want to pay the extra for click over crovect last year and paid the price. Our lambs were strong, healthy and had no dirty bums at all, yet we had 16 cases of strike, some just days after applying the crovect correctly to dry wool. They occurred on the shoulder, back and belly. Bottle contents were tested by Novartis and came back fine. So be warned. In extreme weather ( aka our summer) crovect can fail. We have used click this year and so far no problems.  :excited:


Allison
Title: Re: Clik or Crovect?
Post by: EP90 on June 15, 2013, 11:26:29 am
Quote from: Bionic on June 14, 2013, 05:19:07 pm
I bought Clik last year for my 5 ewes. I thought it was very expensive for so few BUT it does have a long shelf life (so long as you don't leave in the barn when its too cold) so I am able to use it again this year. I have already done the 4 lambs and the ewes will be done in another week or so as they were only shorn a week back.

I tried googling for the shelf life but no joy, can you tell me what the shelf life is of an opened bottle? I guess it must be on the label.  This could change my next purchase to Click.

Thanks
Title: Re: Clik or Crovect?
Post by: Bionic on June 15, 2013, 12:15:01 pm
According to NOAH the shelf life after first opening is 1 year.
My girls were done later last year because of the weather so I am still within the period and able to do them again with the same bottle this year.
http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/Novartis_Animal_Health_UK_Ltd/CLiK_5_ACU-_w_v_Pour-On_Suspension/-27894.html (http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/Novartis_Animal_Health_UK_Ltd/CLiK_5_ACU-_w_v_Pour-On_Suspension/-27894.html)
Title: Re: Clik or Crovect?
Post by: shep53 on June 15, 2013, 01:57:03 pm
Quote from: EP90 on June 15, 2013, 11:26:29 am


I tried googling for the shelf life but no joy, can you tell me what the shelf life is of an opened bottle? I guess it must be on the label.  This could change my next purchase to Click.

Thanks
                                                                                                                                                             CLIK  12mths        CROVECT 3mths
Title: Re: Clik or Crovect?
Post by: EP90 on June 15, 2013, 05:51:02 pm
Thanks for your patience, I just re read 'smudgers' post and its all in there, what a muppet!!
Title: Re: Clik or Crovect?
Post by: shygirl on June 16, 2013, 12:57:53 am
we always used crovect and never had any problems. we had strike one year on a few ewes before shearing time but it never came back after they were sprayed with crovect.
Title: Re: Clik or Crovect?
Post by: Blacksheep on June 16, 2013, 07:27:42 am
We usually use Crovect, it is good for treatment, although purchased Dysect last time as it was a bit cheaper and provides slightly longer protection. We kept some Crovect back in case it was needed for treatment though as have had sheep with severe reactions to Dysect when used for treatment.
I am surprised that Crovect wasn't effective onnyview, as it has always been really good at treating, just spraying a bit on the affected area without any need for clipping it always seems to have done the job, fortunately have seen any flystrike for a couple of years or so now. Obviously with 16 lambs affected I wouldn't want to be using it again though, just seems odd.
We usually use a herbal spray too at the beginning and the start of the season to limit the use of chemical sprays, it also gets used on any meat lambs that we don't want to have a withdrawal restriction on, as well as being the only spray used on the show lambs through the summer as I react to Crovect etc.

We stopped treating the adult sheep altogether a few years ago, once they are shorn they don't seem to suffer any fly strike and we haven't had any cases since doing so. However have since been advised that it would help keep flies away from the ewes udder and hence help prevent mastitis if we used it, not sure about this, but guess it would help limit the fly population a bit.
re Click, the advantage of this is that it should only need to be applied once through the season, whereas Crovect may need 2 or 3 applications.  However as said earlier you cannot use Click as a treatment, it works by inihibiting growth of the blowfly larvae so will have no effect on larvae that have reached the stage to cause strike damage.
Title: Re: Clik or Crovect?
Post by: wayfarer on June 16, 2013, 08:11:04 pm
Having looked at the details online about both Clik & Crovect both appear to advise that you do not touch the fleece for a number of weeks afterwards.  This would be hard for us as the lambs are treated as pets (until they have to go for meat) so I would be concerned about this as my boys like to stroke and cuddle them.  Does anyone have any views on this?
Title: Re: Clik or Crovect?
Post by: Blacksheep on June 16, 2013, 10:07:08 pm
Quote from: wayfarer on June 16, 2013, 08:11:04 pm
Having looked at the details online about both Clik & Crovect both appear to advise that you do not touch the fleece for a number of weeks afterwards.  This would be hard for us as the lambs are treated as pets (until they have to go for meat) so I would be concerned about this as my boys like to stroke and cuddle them.  Does anyone have any views on this?

Personally I wouldn't want children handling lambs that had been recently treated with Crovect, Clik etc, as posted above our show lambs and those due to go for meat soon are treated with a herbal spray and this is because of the handling they get and trimming etc, I have had bad reactions to Crovect, I believe it contributed to a severe anaphylaxis event which I am probably lucky to have survived.   Also Dysect caused severe reactions in sheep that were treated for blowfly strike using it including an anaphylactic reaction.
Barrier Animal Health make a preventive solution which is suitable for use in organic situations, I believe it lasts 3 weeks or so. We use Dynamite, which is a herbal product that you dilute with water, but it needs to be applied very frequently especially during wetter weather and during high risk fly strike times, I don't think that it is produced specifically for sheep or flystrike but we have found it effective as a repellant, but we are up on a hill and I wouldn't want to give it any guarentees as such especially in lower lying land etc.
Title: Re: Clik or Crovect?
Post by: SallyintNorth on June 17, 2013, 12:06:03 am
If you are handling your lambs every day you could decide not to spray and instead to be very vigilant for any signs of strike.

But I would certainly not be allowing children to fondle sheep sprayed with Crovect.  I have become sensitized to it, and have to use waterproofs, latex gloves, eye mask and mouth mask when using.  If you look at what it does to the waterproofs, you'll certainly wonder whether you want it touching your, or your children's, skin! :o
Title: Re: Clik or Crovect?
Post by: wayfarer on June 17, 2013, 08:24:57 am
Thank you for your advice and experience - that solves it for me.  We will watch carefully and in bad times use a herbal fly repellant. 
Title: Re: Clik or Crovect?
Post by: SteveHants on June 17, 2013, 10:24:04 pm
Quote from: wayfarer on June 16, 2013, 08:11:04 pm
Having looked at the details online about both Clik & Crovect both appear to advise that you do not touch the fleece for a number of weeks afterwards.  This would be hard for us as the lambs are treated as pets (until they have to go for meat) so I would be concerned about this as my boys like to stroke and cuddle them.  Does anyone have any views on this?


Get some woolshedding sheep.  :P