The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: Bionic on July 11, 2012, 10:20:08 am
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I was sitting watching the tv last night when I saw a fox through the patio doors. It was as bold as brass walking through my front garden.
I banged as hard as I could on the glass to scare him but he didn't seem to be the least bit scared. By the time I had got the dog out the fox had gone. What do I do now?
I must admit that he had a lovely face and I don't think I could have shot him, even if I had a gun (which I don't).
I was worried about the chickens but they were all present and correct.
Sally
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He'll be back to dine later... >:( :( >:( :o
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Have you got a local gamekeeper, Bionic? Around here they are usually pretty keen to deal with foxes at this time of year because of the poults going down soon.
Neighbouring farmer may know of someone willing to do the job.
If you see him around and you haven't got many hens it maybe worth keeping them confined in their run for a while.
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Electric poultry netting on mains charger will do the trick. We have not (yet - I have to add) lost any hens or ducklings to either foxes or badgers, or even mink... even though all are present and check out the "facilities" regularly...
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Anke,
My chickens free range across a coule of acres so the poultry netting won't work for us :(
Thanks for the suggestion though
Sally
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Can you let your dogs lurk around your hens for much of the day, and pay visits at night? Foxes tend not to challenge dogs, especially if there are more than one, and if yours doesn't know when is a dog-free time, the fox might go and hunt elsewhere. A little dog urine and faeces left about, while not great for other reasons, will remind the fox of who lives there.
The fact that he wasn't alarmed by you banging on the window means he's been before, so it looks as if your hen safety has been ok so far. Dusk and dawn tend to be the most likely times for an attack, dusk in particular, so make sure you don't forget to shut the hens in on time :chook: :chook:
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Anke,
My chickens free range across a coule of acres so the poultry netting won't work for us :(
Thanks for the suggestion though
Sally
With a battery charger poultry netting is easily moved, and the 50m long one gives them a good enough area, just move it whenever it looks a bit bare. We gave up on the idea of fully free ranging hens. We had at the beginning a bunch of old hybrids that were feather pecking badly in their enclosure, so we got them a "man" and let them free range... they well and truly marched about led by this "teenager" cockerel, all the way down to the road.... we didn't loose any as they came home for "corn time" at 5pm and were then shut in for the rest of the evening. I was more worried about the cars and tractors rather than the fox... as they didn't lay much anymore.
But for us the netting is invaluable for keeping our two flocks (and cockerels) separate and also the younger (and more valuable) hens safe.
But if you get a fox attack, re-think your arrangements for free-range....
PS.: Our dog(bitch) also leaves her little perfumed notes around the place....
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I've told the story before but Mr. Fox took my hens from our garden when the dog was outside with them ::) . At other times we had seen him sun-bathing in the garden and totally ignoring the hens that were scratching in the borders. ???
Keep your fingers crossed, he may have been just passing through. :fc: Only way to be safe is to confine them some way.
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Similar to us Sally, we have a resident fox that walks past the chicken run (electric netting about quite a large area) he's very sure of himself. The only 2 hens we've lost have been errant wanderers and it was during the harsh cold winter time.
If yours are that free range though its going to be harder to implement any control.
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A fox took ours at 8.30pm at the beginning of June, full daylight, if they are taking stuff back for the cubs they'll be gettng desperate.
Being so bold I wonder if it was a dumped urban fox?
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I wondered about an urban fox too. It was also around 8.30pm when I saw this one. You aren't sending yours down to me are you? ;D
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But we had one last year that walked across the field next to ours each afternoon and watched us with indifference. When hubbie walked along the lane with our dog, he would just sit watching in the hedge.
My neighbour has just lost a hen and 4 chicks to a fox ..... midday.
Can't all be urban foxes. They don't release that many surely ...... ????
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" Can't all be urban foxes. They don't release that many surely ...... (http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/Smileys/default/huh.gif)? "
only by the hundreds
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Which it is illegal to do, incidentally.
Were it my garden, I know what I'd do....
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Big problem here in Ireland.
Shot over 100 last season.
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Wow, Jonkil I hope I don't have that many foxes
Sally
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Which organisations release them? Where?
I don't want any :o
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My problem went to foxy heaven (or Hell) complete with family, called a gamekeeper from a nearby estate, they try and keep 'things' down in number as a buffer outside the actual estate, he also said it wasn't actually illegal to let them loose, because they are a native breed, also some rescue centres have a licence to release them (and grey squirrels etc >:( )
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Our local fox man took (shot!) 4 adult males from the hill recently - a sure sign of releases he says as they usually have largish territories. Shutting mine in run (attahced to their house) at 4pm now - Lost 8 in the past 2 months - all before 5pm. Bold as bloody brass they are.
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I'm really loathed to shut mine in early as their run is tiny. Having said that its better than battery hens get so perhaps I shouldn't feel too guilty as they free range all day.
Building a bigger run is on the list of things for OH to do but his list just seems to grow and grow. :(
Sally
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Which bit of SHOOT THEM !! don't you understand ??
I know all about the animal cruelty bit but at the end of the day if we've upset the balance of nature we have to re balance it.
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Moleskins, I understand but don't have a gun.
Sally
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Lost all our hens today. Again. Feel sorry for the neighbour who has let us take a few days hols and is gutted.
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That's horrid, Small Farmer. Also poor neighbour - who also will be a-feared to let you go away again... :(
:bouquet: {{{hugs}}} :-*
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Thanks Sally. OH has lost her Leg Bars which she spent ages finding, but it's the third time we've been hit in July, and the second time when we've been away. It's gotta be the same vixen.
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Are they coming same time of day SF? really sorry to hear what's happened.
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The fox was back at 8.15 this morning. The dog was inside but barking like mad. He had seen the fox through the window.
I was outside and the fox just sat looking at me. I shouted and clapped my hands. He went away but not in a hurry. OH put the hens back in their enclosuer for a while. Me thinks it may not be long before he gets them :(
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Sally, contact your local hunt. It's what they're there for.
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Thanks Sally I will do that. I know that the huntsmaster doesn't live far from here and the 'stray' hound we took in for a short while was his.
Sally
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The fox was back at 8.15 this morning. The dog was inside but barking like mad. He had seen the fox through the window.
I was outside and the fox just sat looking at me. I shouted and clapped my hands. He went away but not in a hurry. OH put the hens back in their enclosuer for a while. Me thinks it may not be long before he gets them :(
Thats horrible, I routinely have to eliminate foxes for people who have their flocks decimated by them.
In one area nearly everyone lost fowl to foxes, there were large pockets of them and they seemed to strike daily and randomly. We were asked to help, over a period of 5 nights we shot 36 foxes and that seemed to sort the problem out. They are a real problem and wreck flocks that people spend years setting up.
Youtube video below shows how it should be done, don't watch if you don't want to see a fox being shot.
Fox Shooting in Ireland Lamping, Vermin Control (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPJh6ivCsn4#)
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the 'stray' hound we took in for a short while was his.
It's part of country life, cajoling the 'lost' hound into a (very secure!) shed and calling the hunstman to say you've got it. Or, if you can't capture or secure it, letting the hunt know that it's been seen - they'll send one of the people it knows over to pick it up.
Just make sure they're not actually still out with the pack when you do it - you won't make friends locking up a hound before the pack is rounded up!
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Youtube video below shows how it should be done, don't watch if you don't want to see a fox being shot.
Hi Jonkil
what was it about the eye at about 4min.20 ?
I prefer to see foxes shot (with a good clean shot) than hunted down.
Even foxes I wouldn't want them to crawl off and die in pain
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My problem went to foxy heaven (or Hell) complete with family, called a gamekeeper from a nearby estate, they try and keep 'things' down in number as a buffer outside the actual estate, he also said it wasn't actually illegal to let them loose, because they are a native breed, also some rescue centres have a licence to release them (and grey squirrels etc >:( )
As I understand it, they are classed as vermin and therefore it is against the Wildlife and Countryside Act, 1984 to release them, but I could be wrong.
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thought I'd better check so I googled fox release and found (apart from a load of films) ::) , the following sites
http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00Man/MammalHusbandryTechniques/UKMHusbIndTech/cas_release_m_foxes.htm (http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00Man/MammalHusbandryTechniques/UKMHusbIndTech/cas_release_m_foxes.htm)
http://www.wildaboutbritain.co.uk/forums/mammal-forums/65598-fox-release-after-rehabilitaion.html (http://www.wildaboutbritain.co.uk/forums/mammal-forums/65598-fox-release-after-rehabilitaion.html)
rather than clicking in the address, which doesn't work for me, copy and paste complete address into address bar.
Ended up wandering round 'Wild about Britain' for quite a while :)
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To keep the fox away get your otherhalf to pee outside in your field,Hugh fearnley-whittingstall from river cottage says it works for him!!
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Rockstar I will send him and the dog out to pee together ;D ;D
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I've routinely pee'd near the chicken house but it ain't working. Normally OH spends quite a lot of time in the orchard but we're away. Ours were taken before 2000 in good light conditions, and all bar one removed at least 400m and a main road.
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Moleskins, I understand but don't have a gun.
Sally
Hi Sally,
I'm sure there must be someone nearby with a shotgun that would happily do the job for you.
Plus it may be worth you having one yourself to deal with crows, grey squirrels, rabbits etc.
I know this may make me seem like a Rambo type but I'm not, just a realist who sees that we often upset the balance of nature and so should put things right. My gun doesn't often come out of the cabinet but it would for a fox going after my lambs or a dog worrying my sheep.
I really do hope you get the fox before it 'gets you'.
:fc: for your stock.
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No, they are not classed as vermin, and it is not illegal to release them into the wild. We are a wildlife release area for several wildlife charities on our farm, and we usually end up with fox cubs each year that are raised and released back into the wild. What happens to them once they leave our care is left to fate, but it certainly is not illegal to re-release them. I also have chickens in a free-range area - mains electric fenced - of about a quarter of an acre and despite having fox cubs every year, we have never lost our chickens to them. The worst loss we had was when they were in their house at night, and a stoat got in!
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A shotgun is not quite the job for them, unless the range is close and loaded with "Triple AAA"... as someone said earlier its better to have a clean kill rather than wounding the animal.
Someone experienced with a high powered hunting rifle is the right person to shoot them, but if you live in an urban area that may not be practical... backdrop/ricochet considerations etc.
Hi Jonkil
what was it about the eye at about 4min.20 ?
I prefer to see foxes shot (with a good clean shot) than hunted down.
Even foxes I wouldn't want them to crawl off and die in pain
Couldn't see the entry point of the shot, the exit wound is very apparent with a 22.250 tightly packed round... the entry point in that case was the foxes eye.. Yes I agree 100% with the clean shot analogy, the animal is under no duress at all, it wont know what hit it when performed properly... hunting and snaring/trapping is quite barbaric, the animal is tortured to death.
Also, here we have inexperienced guys lamping and shooting with shotguns and rimfire rifles that are in no way up to the job and actually quite dangerous in the wrong hands.
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No, they are not classed as vermin, and it is not illegal to release them into the wild. We are a wildlife release area for several wildlife charities on our farm, and we usually end up with fox cubs each year that are raised and released back into the wild. What happens to them once they leave our care is left to fate, but it certainly is not illegal to re-release them. I also have chickens in a free-range area - mains electric fenced - of about a quarter of an acre and despite having fox cubs every year, we have never lost our chickens to them. The worst loss we had was when they were in their house at night, and a stoat got in!
I'm gonna check this, because it was when I did conservation law in the early 2000s, but it may have changed since then.
Oh, and BBs do the job very effectiveley at close range. :thumbsup:
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Hi - I know it's a bone of contention, and I appreciate why some farmers chose to destroy foxes on their land, but the RSPCA and other wildlife sanctuary's regularly release wildlife, including foxes back into the wild. Have a look here for the legal info on it :
The whole legislation can be seen [/color]here (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1981/69).
As someone else said, "a word of warning though, anyone releasing foxes could be guilty of an offence under the Animal Welfare Act 2006, if by doing so they caused un-necessary suffering (in the opinion of a judge)"
Below is just an a tiny piece of that legislation. [/size]
Schedule 2, part 2 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 was amended in 1992 by Statutory Instrument 3010, which lists the followingbirds[/color] as being those which may be taken at any time by any authorised person. Those birds listed are:
Crow Corvus corone
Dove, Collared Streptopelia decaocto
Gull, Great Black-backed Larus marinus
Gull, Lesser Black-backed Larus fuscus
Gull, Herring Larus argentatus
Jackdaw Corvus monedula
Jay Garrulus glandarius
Magpie Pica pica
Pigeon, Feral Columba livia
Rook Corvus frugilegus
Sparrow, House Passer domesticus
Starling Sturnus vulgaris
Woodpigeon Columba palumbus
Part 1, Section 14 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 does indeed prohibit the release of certain species;
14 Introduction of new species etc. E+W
(1)Subject to the provisions of this Part, if any person releases or allows to escape into the wild any animal which—
(a)is of a kind which is not ordinarily resident in and is not a regular visitor to Great Britain in a wild state; or
(b)is included in Part I of Schedule 9,
he shall be guilty of an offence.
(2)Subject to the provisions of this Part, if any person plants or otherwise causes to grow in the wild any plant which is included in Part II of Schedule 9, he shall be guilty of an offence.
(3)Subject to subsection (4), it shall be a defence to a charge of committing an offence under subsection (1) or (2) to prove that the accused took all reasonable steps and exercised all due diligence to avoid committing the offence.
(4)Where the defence provided by subsection (3) involves an allegation that the commission of the offence was due to the act or default of another person, the person charged shall not, without leave of the court, be entitled to rely on the defence unless, within a period ending seven clear days before the hearing, he has served on the prosecutor a notice giving such information identifying or assisting in the identification of the other person as was then in his possession.
[F119(5)Any person authorised in writing by the Secretary of State may, at any reasonable time and (if required to do so) upon producing evidence that he is authorised, enter any land for the purpose of ascertaining whether an offence under subsection (1) or (2) is being, or has been, committed on that land; but nothing in this subsection shall authorise any person to enter a dwelling.]
[F119(6)Any person who intentionally obstructs a person acting in the exercise of the power conferred by subsection (5) shall be guilty of an offence.]
SCHEDULE 9 E+W+S Animals and plants to which section 14 applies
Part I E+W+S Animals which are established in the wild
Bass, Large-mouthed Black Micropterus salmoides
Bass, Rock Ambloplites rupestris
Bitterling Rhodeus sericeus
Budgerigar Melopsittacus undulatus
Capercaillie Tetrao urogallus
Coypu Myocastor coypus
[F603Crayfish, Noble] [Astacus astacus]
[Crayfish, Signal] [Pacifastacus leniusculus]
[Crayfish, Turkish] [Astacus leptodactylus]
[F604Deer, Muntjac] [F604Muntiacus reevesi]
[Deer, Sika] [Cervus nippon]
[F605 Deer, any hybrid one of whose parents or other lineal ancestor was a Sika Deer] [ Any hybrid of Cervus nippon]
[ With respect to the Outer Hebrides and the isalnds of Aaran, Islay, Jura and Rum - (a)Deer, Cervus(allspecies)] [F605 Cervus]
[F605 (b)Deer, any hybrid one of whose parents or other lineal ancestor was a species of Cervus Deer] [F605 Any hybrid of the genus Cervus]
Dormouse, Fat Glis glis
Duck, Carolina Wood Aix sponsa
Duck, Mandarin Aix galericulata
Duck, Ruddy Oxyura jamaicensis
Eagle, White-tailed Haliaetus albicilla
[Flatworm, New Zealand] [Artiposthia triangulata]
Frog, Edible Rana esculenta
Frog, European Tree (otherwise known as Common tree frog) Hyla arborea
Frog, Marsh Rana ridibunda
Gerbil, Mongolian Meriones unguiculatus
Goose, Canada Branta canadensis
Goose, Egyptian Alopochen aegyptiacus
Heron, Night Nycticorax nycticorax
Lizard, Common Wall Podarcis muralis
Marmot, Prairie (otherwise known as Prairie dog) Cynomys
Mink, American Mustela vison
Newt, Alpine Triturus alpestris
[Newt, Italian Crested] [Triturus carnifex]
[F606Owl, Barn] [Tyto alba]
Parakeet, Ring-necked Psittacula krameri
Partridge, Chukar Alectoris chukar
Partridge, Rock Alectoris graeca
Pheasant, Golden Chrysolophus pictus
Pheasant, Lady Amherst’s Chrysolophus amherstiae
Pheasant, Reeves’ Syrmaticus reevesii
Pheasant, Silver Lophura nycthemera
Porcupine, Crested Hystrix cristata
Porcupine, Himalayan Hystrix hodgsonii
Pumpkinseed (otherwise known as Sun-fish or Pond-perch) Lepomis gibbosus
Quail, Bobwhite Colinus virginianus
Rat, Black Rattus rattus
[Snake, Aesculapian] [Elaphe longissima]
Squirrel, Grey Sciurus carolinensis
Terrapin, European Pond Emys orbicularis
Toad, African Clawed Xenopus laevis
Toad, Midwife Alytes obstetricans
Toad, Yellow-bellied Bombina variegata
Wallaby, Red-necked Macropus rufogriseus
Wels (otherwise known as European catfish) Silurus glanis
Zander Stizostedion lucioperca
I have had a quick nose through and can't see any legislation that related to the legality of releasing foxes back into the wild.
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Also, this article last year would seem to confirm that even urban foxes are not currently classed as vermin:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12775345 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12775345)
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Local farmer will shoot it for you, he or she will get your chickens if it knows they are there :(
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I wonder what the etiquette is about shooting the foxes as soon as they are a safe distance from the release vans.... :innocent:
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Perfectly legal I would think - just because they are released doesn't mean they are protected in any way. They take their chances along with any other fox once they are re-released.