The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: VSS on July 09, 2012, 02:54:04 pm
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I have had my 53 reg Discovery for 14 months. It appeared to be in good nick with releatively low mileage. I paid £7k for it from a garage that I trust.
Since then I have had over £2k worth of bills to fix it for various problems three of which have been problems with the air suspension. First was a burst bag, second time two burst air bags and a knackered compressor and the third occasion the suspension has overfilled so the back is way up in the air and it won't come down (OH has taken it in this morning so fixing this problem is not included in the £2k of bills)
Am I better off to get rid? And if so what do you recommend (no pick ups please - has to double as a large family car) Or should I stick it out?
Should I look at switching to coil suspension? Although, I have heard that this may not be legal for 7 seaters. Any help gratefully recieved.
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How frustrating! Are you needing a 7 seater? If not, I would recommend a Nissal x-trail. I have one as I need them for upland tracks, but also want a family car, which I don't mind driving around town, or parking in the supermarket car park. It's not too bad on fuel.
It is so frustrating when cars don't work! It is something just not worth throwing money into one that is continiously going wrong. We had a disco that I paid £5k for and I had to give it a friend in the end, after about 3 years, I think!
Helen
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Discos are so expensive to run and maintain, and there are so many wrong u'ns on the market that have been messed about with,
Do you need a passenger 4x4 or a towing vehicle ? or a versatile farm truck, there are more reliable forms of transport out there.
Subaru Forrester does the same job with less cost , works for me. :thumbsup:
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How about the Land rover defender double cab?
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How about the Land rover defender double cab?
It hardly seems worth the bother of typing from scratch, so I've edited in blue ;) :
I have had my R reg Defender for 18 months. It appeared to be in good nick with releatively high mileage. I paid £4k for it from a charlatan that I mistakenly trusted.
Since then I have had over £3k worth of bills to fix it for various problems.......
OK, OK, so it's felt like death by 1000 cuts, but I have to say, I think :fc: I've got to a point with it now that all is as it should be. He's still a rusty clunky leaky noisy wee fellow, and always will be without spending eye watering amounts of money. However, for pottering about the fields, uprooting tree stumps, towing trailers, fetching grain and getting me to work through snowdrifts, there really is no better car.
Somebody said on another thread that to enjoy owning a Defender, you really need to WANT to own one, and I think that's right. Is this the answer to VSS's prayers then? I very much doubt it!
The X-trail is a great suggestion though, as is the Forrester if it's big enough for you. My friend also has a Mitsubishi Pajero which has similarly served him well, but apparently that means 'W@nker' (%27W@nker%27) in Spanish, so...... ;D
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The problem with a defender it is just not a good enough cruiser to double as a family car on a long journey.
Womble, I think the ones you have suggested probably haven't got the towing capacity I need. Really has to have a full 3.5 tonne tow capacity and preferably traction control too.
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Discos are over rated Chelsea Tractors from a company that has lost the plot. There is no requirement for air suspension regarding the number of passengers, coil springs are more than satisfactory. Furthermore , a garage cannot repair or maintain a vehicle to higher standard than what the manufacturer produced.
If you want to know what sort of Four Wheel Drive vehicle you need, then right down your requirements and start looking underneath some of these four wheel drives. X - trails might be reliable on roads and dust tracks, but I could snap the suspension with my little finger. Thin flimsy arms and tie bars that have no load capacity. There is a photo in a L/Rover Series One magazine of X trails been recovered out of mud by S1's.
The bigger japanese stuff like Navaros & Warriors ride and drive very nice but are on torsion bar suspension on the front axle, which has limited movement. They are also very large heavy things that drink fuel and unsuitable for tight off road spots.
There is only one all round decent 7 seat four wheel drive, which you cannot buy new anymore, Land Rover 90 County with TDi 200 or 300 engines. Just look at the second hand values. If I am not mistaken, it was Her Majesty's favourite when driven around the estate, (Blue Peter, going to the Post Office in the 1970s).
Also, if you want more capacity, then put a Sankey trailer on the back when required. Had mine over eight years, no problems and it works for a living.
Or buy a Toyota Land Cruiser. Land Rover, are you listening ? That new Range Rover thing is a Bankers Hand Bag. :-J
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Ive got a Suzuki Grand Vitara. I love it. It tows anything and everything, drives brilliantly and looks bloomin' good. Its fairly old now and is a gas guzzler as its a 2.5V6, but for round here, its essential. We use OH's car for the long trips (a sensible Renault Scenic), but I do all the shopping in "Bigboy" and use it when I go out alone as its RH drive and I havent mastered LH drive cars yet!
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NM, I have one too. Mine is nice but we have never towed in it because OH's car already has a towbar
Sally
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The problem with a defender it is just not a good enough cruiser to double as a family car on a long journey.
Yes, have to agree with that one.
Womble, I think the ones you have suggested probably haven't got the towing capacity I need. Really has to have a full 3.5 tonne tow capacity and preferably traction control too.
Oh dear - that could be quite a big ask! Even a Land Cruiser is only going to get you 2.8 tonne ish.
Rather than have everybody go off on which cars they like or hate then (bound to happen of course! ;D ), what are your actual requirements VSS?
E.g. Overall budget, Balance of on-road / off-road, type of off-roading, relative importance of comfort / people carrying / economy etc?
By the way, when you say 'no pickups', what's the reason for that? Just don't like them, or not enough seats? I had a 4life many years ago as a company car, and that was great fun to drive, if a little thirsty! ;D . I just mention it because all of our local farmers seem to be running around in this sort of thing nowadays - there's not a single one with a Defender or Disco.
(http://is03.thegumtree.com/image/big/130213455.jpg)
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Hummer it is then :innocent:
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Friend of mine owned a Disco once. He'd had it 2 years and spent a small fortune on it. Luckily he was earning a small fortune at the time. He'd replaced the gearbox the previous week when the dashboard CRACKED IN HALF !!!!! Get rid fast VSS.
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If you like the disco apart from the air suspension woes, I think you can convert them to standard coil-springs.
A few years ago a friend of mine had a range rover with air sus' and he converted to coil springs 'cos he got fed up with the air sus going wrong.
You would probably have to look at the landy mags/forums for useful info (like cost of conversion) on this though as i've lost track of said friend.
m
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My sympathies completely - I would like to agree with Womble that once you have invested so much then there isnt much more to go wrong but sadly on a Disco there probably is. I lusted after a disco or a range rover but was put off by the reputation and I bought a 7 seat shogun ( had it for 4 years now) - a bit agricultural but totally reliable.
I would advise to cut your losses and move away from the Disco if nothing else because repairs and parts appear very expensive. There will always be somebody to take your place owning it because they are very popular.
Good luck Either way.
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Mitsubishi Delica L400!!! Cheap as chips (ancient models are from around 94/95, which is what I've got) but most imported Mid to late 2000's. It's the same engine, chassis and running gear from the Pajero. Most common model is the 2.8 TD with auto box. 2wd, 4wd, high/low and diff lock, pulls like a train, off roads like a beast and the best thing is, my missus does the school run in it because it's a 7 seater family bus.
I love 'em!!!
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We picked up an Hyundi Galloper ( basically its a like a Mitsu' Pajaro). Seven seater and plenty of towing power with large indoor flat bed capacity. I realised that we needed to reduce our costs and not get hung up on the make of a car. Ours does all we need it too and is low maintenance/cost. Ideally we would buy a low cc small car for days out but the Galloper is such a reliable work horse I won't get rid of it. .
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NM, I have one too. Mine is nice but we have never towed in it because OH's car already has a towbar
Sally
They are lovely to drive aren't they Sally? I dread the thought that one day he'll have to go if he fails its CT (our MOT in France), as parts are very expensive for Jap cars over here. Im hoping that he's got a few more years in him so that I can put off getting a "sensible" car, although where we live, a 4x4 is sensible, especially in the snow and very muddy country lanes.
Mary.
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If you like the disco apart from the air suspension woes, I think you can convert them to standard coil-springs.
I think that might be worthy of consideration mab. I DO like the Disco (this is disco no. 3 for us). It is comfortable, can carry the family in comfort too, has a decent and flexible load space, and although it is heavy on juice on short trips, it's not too bad on longer runs and motorway trips (so longer as you remember that it has a blind spot that will hide a transit!) and the traction control is essential on our steep, lumpy drive and sloping yard.
The earlier two have been pretty good in terms of reliability and it is primarily the suspension that is causing problems on this one.
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Mechanics list, personal opinion.
Good 4 wheel drive UTILITY Vehicles :- Suzuki Jeeps and Vitaras. Dihatsu 4 Tracks. Land Cruisers. Pajeros and early L/Rover 90s with TDI engines and Series Land Rovers. These kind of vehicles wear dints and scratches with pride and tell a story.
Warriors, Naveros, Rangers are popular with builders and farmers who don't farm (get their hands mucky). Too big for getting in and out of tight fields, push & pulling tackle around, hitting bushes, posts and walls.
As for Hummers, I have experience with them, "during the War" (Uncle Albert). Yes I was involved in the invasion of Iraq 2003, loads of Hummers about. The Yanks lacked experience and I ended up fixing a few, always fuel problems because the low grade of diesel been used. Good in a straight line and big capacity, not ideal for a quaint British small holding.
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Warriors, Naveros, Rangers are popular with builders and farmers who don't farm (get their hands mucky). Too big for getting in and out of tight fields, push & pulling tackle around, hitting bushes, posts and walls.
Yes, but the mucky handed farmers I see near here use quad bikes and dogs for most of the on-field work like checking or rounding up sheep. If they need to get sheep onto a trailer, they'll do it in a place where they have room to get the Warrior into position. Different tools for different jobs around the farm, that's all.
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As for Hummers, I have experience with them, "during the War" (Uncle Albert). Yes I was involved in the invasion of Iraq 2003, loads of Hummers about. The Yanks lacked experience and I ended up fixing a few, always fuel problems because the low grade of diesel been used. Good in a straight line and big capacity, not ideal for a quaint British small holding.
I wasn't impressed by them at the end of the war but that may have been Iraqi meching. Slightly better at withstanding IED's than our L/R. Hellish noisy too, plus I don't think there'd be much call for a top gunner around the farm.
Then again...
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Simple.
Buy a Landcruiser.
They all have their little problems but Toyota much, much less.
Landcruisers from 2004 onwards have brake caliper issues (seize and need replacement) but are bulletproof in all other aspects.
Here in Ireland they are #1 and it's the one to have, the s/h values reflect this.
Discoverys and the others are leagues behind the Toyota.
There is a saying regarding Toyotas here, " A Toyota is like muesli, not very exciting but good for you"!.... sort of sums it up really.
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Good 4 wheel drive UTILITY Vehicles :- Suzuki Jeeps and Vitaras. Dihatsu 4 Tracks. Land Cruisers. Pajeros and early L/Rover 90s with TDI engines and Series Land Rovers. These kind of vehicles wear dints and scratches with pride and tell a story.
Daihatsu 4 tracks were fantastic towing vehicles, powerful and very short bodied - just what you need. Such a shame they don't make them anymore. We had two of these before we had so many children. Sadly you just can't fit five people in them and you can't get them now.
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Simple.
Buy a Landcruiser.
They all have their little problems but Toyota much, much less.
Landcruisers from 2004 onwards have brake caliper issues (seize and need replacement) but are bulletproof in all other aspects.
Here in Ireland they are #1 and it's the one to have, the s/h values reflect this.
Discoverys and the others are leagues behind the Toyota.
There is a saying regarding Toyotas here, " A Toyota is like muesli, not very exciting but good for you"!.... sort of sums it up really.
Plus they're the insurgent 4x4 of choice - now that's an endorsement and a half!!!
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Warriors, Naveros, Rangers are popular with builders and farmers who don't farm (get their hands mucky). Too big for getting in and out of tight fields, push & pulling tackle around, hitting bushes, posts and walls.
Yes, but the mucky handed farmers I see near here use quad bikes and dogs for most of the on-field work like checking or rounding up sheep. If they need to get sheep onto a trailer, they'll do it in a place where they have room to get the Warrior into position. Different tools for different jobs around the farm, that's all.
This mucky handed smallholder :-J and her OH builder have a double cab ford ranger, it does everything and more and is capable of hauling trailer and two tonne digger along with taking pigs to butchers, shows and although its is thirsty when hauling otherwise its comfortable enough to go touring the lakes in and treking doen country to piggy meetings! so gets my vote!
mandy :pig:
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We're going through this problem too. We've ended up with too many, too old vehicles that are expensive to maintain.
The current "crossover" vehicles don't haul much over 2t but are comfortable and economical. They rely on electronics so I can't see longevity if given a hard life. Which? magazine points to the Disco as being one of the best loved, least reliable vehicles in current production.
The 3.5t requirement doesn't leave you many choices and they're all expensive. The biggest of the landcruisers is a lot of money at £63k new!
Our Nissan pulls 3t but it's 9 year life so far has been plagued by electrical gremlins and suspension problems. There's a nasty graunching coming from the front again.... Nissan dealers think family motorist not business user IMHO.
Converting to springs doesn't sound cheap either - you need to find an experienced and competent landrover bodger who knows how to do this stuff. Can't see dealers being helpful
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Converting to springs doesn't sound cheap either - you need to find an experienced and competent landrover bodger who knows how to do this stuff. Can't see dealers being helpful
Odin could do it, he can fix anything :thumbsup:
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everybody wants a land rover either an old series1 or the top banana rangie it is once they have scraped together the deposit that they find they need more money to run it and i could never see the logic in wanting a shagged out old 90 or 110 that the bulkhead was rotten and the chassis welded with bean cans an equivalent age disco is less than half the price of these rot boxes and 100% better on the road i just wish i had a fleet of rotten old junk 90s that i could flog to unsuspecting mugs
and having owned discos rangies and 2 freelanders over the last 25 years i have seen it all and the scrimped maintenance
changing to coils is not illegal land rover do a kit and it does not or should not affect your insurance
but if you have a good one and like it keep it :farmer:
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I'm almost certain you can convert it to springs without too much hassle. I find landrover forums very helpful in cases like this.
I have a defender 90 (1991), because it suits me. Its a pain to drive over any distance, but I do have ground thats steep and it fulfuls that go anywhere and yet can still drive it on the road brief. It is also ticketed for 3.5t. They hold value (don't knock the 'enthusiasts') and parts are cheap, with the added bonus you can usually fix it yourself.
I have had lots of smug fun pulling a shiny Nissan Patrol (with trailer full of sheep coupled on) out of relativeley shallow mud that belongs to a mate of mine when moving sheep.... ;D
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Our Nissan Navara was very comfortable to travel in and towed anything you wanted it to, but is too big to take onto the fields, for which I use a big Honda quadbike. We put one of the covered backs on the Navara which made it more practical for animals.
When OH f€$%#d off, taking the Navara, I replaced it with an X-trail which pulls my smaller sheep trailer well, will take a couple of dogs/sheep/goats/hay bales in the back and is pleasant to drive about in, transporting 5 comfortably.
Didn't have Landrovers, much as I love Defenders, because I need reliability as I am miles from anywhere.
Still have the big Honda quad for field work.
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So VSS answer seems to be to buy your son a knackered Land Rover so he learns enough to be able to maintain your Disco.