The Accidental Smallholder Forum

Livestock => Cattle => Topic started by: amd7000 on May 15, 2012, 10:40:53 pm

Title: How many cows can i keep on 18 acres of land?
Post by: amd7000 on May 15, 2012, 10:40:53 pm
Hi all, newby here. ;D  Me and my wife have 18 acres of land with an 8m x 25m barn. We would like to farm cattle for a modest secondary income.  We have no experience with cattle but have kept chickens on part of the land for 4 years,but i'm not keen on them,sorry . :-[  We know a couple of large successful farmers and may be able to gain help from them.  We are in nottinghamshire and have been told the land is excellent for farming, theres currently wheat growing.  What would be the best way to profit from cattle, or is the land too small for cattle or any livestock?   Thanks Andy
Title: Re: How many cows can i keep on 18 acres of land?
Post by: Mammyshaz on May 15, 2012, 10:54:45 pm
Sorry, cannot help with query but welcome to the forum  :wave:
Title: Re: How many cows can i keep on 18 acres of land?
Post by: amd7000 on May 15, 2012, 11:21:15 pm
Hi and thanks. :D
Title: Re: How many cows can i keep on 18 acres of land?
Post by: amd7000 on May 16, 2012, 01:23:35 am
Should mention we would like to build a house or convert the barn in the future whilst still keeping cattle/livestock.
Title: Re: How many cows can i keep on 18 acres of land?
Post by: Dan on May 16, 2012, 06:51:17 am
The land's definitely not too small to keep livestock. We have 12 acres and keep sheep, cattle (2 Shetlands about to calf plus a bullock), poultry, and weaners, on reasonable (but slowly improving) grazing.

You need to work out a plan for the land and income. A lot depends on your personal circumstances, how much income you need, how quickly, what the land's like, what breeds you keep, and so on.

There's a brief series of guides on the site that might be useful reading:
HTH.

Dan  :)
Title: Re: How many cows can i keep on 18 acres of land?
Post by: tizaala on May 16, 2012, 07:50:09 am
3 cows or horses
5 sheep
to the acre as a rough guide
but one pig can destroy the lot.
Title: Re: How many cows can i keep on 18 acres of land?
Post by: robert waddell on May 16, 2012, 08:53:41 am
now i know you want the business so you can get a house       you freely admit to knowing sod all about cattle so are needing led by the hand on your journey       my best advice is if it is as good as you say grow wheat and forget about cattle     :farmer:
Title: Re: How many cows can i keep on 18 acres of land?
Post by: Haylo-peapod on May 16, 2012, 11:40:30 am
3 cows or horses
5 sheep
to the acre as a rough guide
but one pig can destroy the lot.

Maybe I'm mistaken but I always thought in general it was 1 cow to the acre?   ???
Title: Re: How many cows can i keep on 18 acres of land?
Post by: Dan on May 16, 2012, 12:22:43 pm
3 cows or horses
5 sheep
to the acre as a rough guide
but one pig can destroy the lot.

Maybe I'm mistaken but I always thought in general it was 1 cow to the acre?   ???

The answer, as with almost everything related to stocking rates, is "it depends". On the breed, the age and purpose of the animals, the grass, the climate, whether winter forage is grown or bought in, etc, etc.

These are the guideline livestock units Rosemary sourced:

http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/smallholding/grassland-management/livestock-units/ (http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/smallholding/grassland-management/livestock-units/)
Title: Re: How many cows can i keep on 18 acres of land?
Post by: SallyintNorth on May 16, 2012, 02:19:04 pm
Yes, I thought the rule of thumb was 1 ac grazing and 1 ac for winter forage per cow or per horse or per 5 sheep.  Obviously varies muchly according to the type of ground - and the type of stock; a native/primitive breed may need no more than half what a continental would.

I had the same thought as robert - it would seem the livestock enterprise is in order to prove viabiity in order to get planning permission to build.

There're some people somewhere on t'internet who offer consultancy and will also supply the livestock to help you do exactly that, using alpacas.  Do some Googling.

Title: Re: How many cows can i keep on 18 acres of land?
Post by: HappyHippy on May 16, 2012, 03:08:48 pm
There're some people somewhere on t'internet who offer consultancy and will also supply the livestock to help you do exactly that, using alpacas.  Do some Googling.
So that's why Alpaca's are so expensive then  ;) Knew I had to be missing something  ;D
Title: Re: How many cows can i keep on 18 acres of land?
Post by: amd7000 on May 16, 2012, 03:40:29 pm
Wow!  Thanks for the advice.  Definately some thinking and googling needed.:)

We want to be as eco friendly and efficient as possible using a wind turbine and solar panels(i know the're not great) and be almost self sufficient.  We have ideas of growing on livestock with cattle being the main concern and also chickens(meat/eggs) veg plot etc. We basically want to make the land our future and will invest as much as it takes to do it properly, obviously there's a limit to the amount of cash but...

As pointed out I know there are a lot of negatives by doing this but with help and education surely this is possible?

Thanks again and thanks Dan and Rosemary for a great website. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: How many cows can i keep on 18 acres of land?
Post by: belgianblue on May 20, 2012, 01:55:29 pm
Hi all, newby here. ;D  Me and my wife have 18 acres of land with an 8m x 25m barn. We would like to farm cattle for a modest secondary income.  We have no experience with cattle but have kept chickens on part of the land for 4 years,but i'm not keen on them,sorry . :-[  We know a couple of large successful farmers and may be able to gain help from them.  We are in nottinghamshire and have been told the land is excellent for farming, theres currently wheat growing.  What would be the best way to profit from cattle, or is the land too small for cattle or any livestock?   Thanks Andy

is the land registered as agriculture, you will not be able to build an house on the property. Hence you be requiring to live in an caravan for the first 10 years or so.....
you can put an healthy 20 plus cattle onto grass quite easily next year.
my advise is to go to your next neighbours who have cattle and get use to working with 3/4 of ton animal up close and personal compare to handling an couple of kg chicken.
Title: Re: How many cows can i keep on 18 acres of land?
Post by: Rosemary on May 21, 2012, 09:41:45 am
Remember there are small cattle too that are worth looking at. Our breed is teh Shetland - cows about 350-400kg, thrifty, hardy and docile but able to calve and rear a continental X calf, but much cheaper to maintain than a 3/4 tonne continental cow.

Have a look at the Shetland cattle website.
Title: Re: How many cows can i keep on 18 acres of land?
Post by: amd7000 on May 22, 2012, 07:49:49 pm
Thanks for all the info.  Its very helpful.  At the moment the whole plan doesn't look like it would work, but there's nothing wrong with dreaming, ey?  Shame really, we're going to have to sell the house and downsize in a few years and the land is connected to the house property.
Those shetlands look lovely and would be a great choice for us but we would probably have to get them dehorned. Another farmer I know has had too many injuries with horned cattle.  Was looking at dexters but they seem too small?
 
Title: Re: How many cows can i keep on 18 acres of land?
Post by: belgianblue on May 23, 2012, 01:18:10 pm
people who don't dehorn calves are bloody lazy, and when cattle know they have horns will use them. and they will kill you if your are working alone. it dosen't matter if its 300kg or 700kg it will put you out action for a while.
my advice is to go to coarses and learn how to handle all situations of livestock get some proper knowledge behind you from sheep to pigs to cattle,to lamas ect ect. :farmer:
Title: Re: How many cows can i keep on 18 acres of land?
Post by: Rosemary on May 23, 2012, 02:22:30 pm
people who don't dehorn calves are bloody lazy,

Sorry, can't agree with that - and I bet there are no statistics to back up the statement either. A cattle beast without horns can injure you very easily too. If anything the horns make you very aware of safety.

Our breed standard has horns - and Highland breeders might take exception to be classed as "bloody lazy" too
Title: Re: How many cows can i keep on 18 acres of land?
Post by: robert waddell on May 23, 2012, 03:28:24 pm
suckler calves going through the ring get a lower price than dehorned ones
in the old days when all cattle had horns and they were tied up in byres the amount of injuries was frighting   yes with horns you are very wary but one without horns is every bit as dangerous :farmer:
Title: Re: How many cows can i keep on 18 acres of land?
Post by: Pel on May 23, 2012, 06:35:06 pm
If you go with dexters, buy them from a calm herd (go visit the herd, walk through the field etc), otherwise they are bloody stubborn and very flighty and will jump fences. I used to dislike Dexters greatly, however after sitting for little acorn on here, they arent all that bad, some are nice.

Cattle with horns, are just as dangerous as those without horns.. just have to give yourself more space when handling them. Some horned cattle i've worked with in the past didnt realise they had horns, and would try and gently nudge you in an affectionate manner.. and you'd get poked by horns (but gently), and others knew they had horns so would nudge you with their nose. They were Welsh blacks, lovely beasties, good covering of meat and tasty.
If you can do a deal with your local farmers go with their breeds for now, that way if you get into trouble you can ask for help.
Title: Re: How many cows can i keep on 18 acres of land?
Post by: macgro7 on September 27, 2020, 12:01:14 pm
people who don't dehorn calves are bloody lazy, and when cattle know they have horns will use them. and they will kill you if your are working alone. it dosen't matter if its 300kg or 700kg it will put you out action for a while.
Thats a bit silly to say isint it?
People have been keeping cattle for thousands ofnyears, and they only started dehorning them in 20th century, and majority of people in the world dont do it. Even in most of europe people dont dehorn holsteins in commercial herds! If the cow wanted yo hurt you should would do it with or wothout horns anyway. Have you seen their size and weight?
Title: Re: How many cows can i keep on 18 acres of land?
Post by: Backinwellies on September 27, 2020, 06:03:04 pm
3 cows or horses
5 sheep
to the acre as a rough guide
but one pig can destroy the lot.

Definitely not 3 cows to the acre even small breeds on good grazing .....  5 sheep + 1 cow ish!
Title: Re: How many cows can i keep on 18 acres of land?
Post by: Backinwellies on September 27, 2020, 06:10:53 pm
people who don't dehorn calves are bloody lazy,

I think maybe you should reword this (ADMIN)  ......  it is an unnecessary and unjust comment.   Yes it is easy to disbudd calves at about 4-6 weeks .... I do it .... but no horns is my choice.  I have one cow with horns who has never shown them to me but I have seen her use them on other cattle.   

Cattle with horns do need much more space in pens and housing to prevent bullying.
Title: Re: How many cows can i keep on 18 acres of land?
Post by: Backinwellies on September 27, 2020, 06:18:26 pm
You are not going to make a living from any livestock ..... and they are not a way to get planning permission ..... to do that you usually must show you are able to live off the income from the land. (so get into market gardening or flowers!)

To answer your original question firstly remember at any one time you will have 3 or 4  generations of cattle ..... cows, heifers/ steers  and current years calves.  If you keep your meat animals on just pasture you will need to rear for 3 years so then you will have 4 generations .... so from just  6 original Shetlands....... in 4 years you have   6cows, 6ish growers in 2nd yr, 6ish growers in first year and 6ish calves from this year ....   before you have even sold one for beef.   .....  too many for 18 acres!
Title: Re: How many cows can i keep on 18 acres of land?
Post by: landroverroy on September 27, 2020, 08:47:55 pm
Why has this been resurrected from 8 years ago? :thinking:
I imagine the OP will have found out how many cattle they could keep, by now, and also learned quite a lot about cattle in general. :fc:
Title: Re: How many cows can i keep on 18 acres of land?
Post by: Backinwellies on September 28, 2020, 07:54:03 am
Why has this been resurrected from 8 years ago? :thinking:
I imagine the OP will have found out how many cattle they could keep, by now, and also learned quite a lot about cattle in general. :fc:

well spotted .....  I just responded to the previous post which had just been written ..... didn't look at date of original....  oops!
Title: Re: How many cows can i keep on 18 acres of land?
Post by: YorkshireLass on September 30, 2020, 08:06:56 pm
It's ok, I've just gone through and "liked" a couple  ;D