The Accidental Smallholder Forum

Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: robd on August 30, 2011, 04:01:46 pm

Title: Can you eat old sheep?
Post by: robd on August 30, 2011, 04:01:46 pm
Hello all, this is my first post, and I appologise in advance for any stupid questions I may ask, but if you don't ask, you don't learn!

We are new to sheep and have recently acquired a small mixed flock of 25 (15 2yo shetland ewes, 2 shetland whethers, 3 very elderly exmoor horn ewes and 5 9yo Hill Radnor ewes). We don't have enough space to keep them all so I need to thin out the flock fairly quickly and would appreciate some advice.....

My intention was to cull the exmoors as they are very elderly, and probably the Hill Radnors too. Are they likely to be edible at this advanced age (probably as mince or for stews etc), or am I best just sending them to the hunt kennels?

Is there anybody who would be interested in purchasing some ewes (either Shetlands or Hill Radnors) in East Anglia?

We are intending to keep around 6-12 Shetland ewes to put in lamb, so will need to find a local ram. I'm flexible about which breed to use and wondered if anybody in the Suffolk/Norfolk area may be able to point me in the right direction.

Many thanks in advance for any help

Rob
Title: Re: Can you eat old sheep?
Post by: shearling on August 30, 2011, 04:13:37 pm
Yep - We keep Portlands and they taste better as mutton rather than lamb. I will dog out some reciepts if you would like?
Title: Re: Can you eat old sheep?
Post by: SallyintNorth on August 30, 2011, 05:01:24 pm
Can you eat old sheep?

Heck yeah!  Tastes absolutely fabulous.  Just cook long and slow; use wet, casseroley cooking methods rather than grilling or roasting; pour the fat off.  There'll be a LOT of fat, you'll need to pour it off frequently during cooking, even better if you can let casseroles cool and skim all the fat off, then reheat - but save the fat to cook with, it tastes tremendous.  Roast potatoes are, in my opinion, as good cooked in mutton fat as they are in goose fat.  And it's great for toad in the hole or other battery recipes.  Also in pastry for meat pies.  In fact anywhere you would use lard and a meaty taste is appropriate.

Dry roasting is not best but pot roasts are stunning.  Pot roast chops too - cook on a bed of onions, carrots, other root veg, tomato if you want and a bit of red wine in a well-sealed casserole for 40 minutes then, if you like a crispy outside, finish off open-topped with the chops clear of the fluid.  Let the meat rest in a warm (not hot) place for at least 15 minutes before you eat it if you've had it exposed to dry heat.

I posted a recipe for Navarin on a thread about smaller cuts of old ewe here:
http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=15951.msg153371#msg153371 (http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=15951.msg153371#msg153371)

You'll see that VSS doesn't think it worth getting smaller joints and chops from an old ewe - but then she's never tasted my Navarin of Old Ewe, has she!  ;)

You'll also see that I wax lyrical about old ewe lasagne being the best lasagne you'll ever taste, so if you decide to just get the old dears minced you will have some great lasagnes, cottage / shepherd's pies, etc.  I imagine the sausages would be tremendous, too.

Enjoy your meat, and enjoy your flock.  :wave:
Title: Re: Can you eat old sheep?
Post by: robd on August 30, 2011, 05:20:11 pm
My stomach has started rumbling already!

Many thanks for the rapid replies so far, I'm very impressed and I'm sure I will be posting many more daft questions in the future!
Title: Re: Can you eat old sheep?
Post by: SallyintNorth on August 30, 2011, 05:22:24 pm
... I'm sure I will be posting many more daft questions in the future!

No such thing as a daft question, the daft thing would be to not ask  :D
Title: Re: Can you eat old sheep?
Post by: Fleecewife on August 30, 2011, 05:43:17 pm
It was definitely not a daft question.

We send off a number of old ewes and I usually make them into burgers or sausages - not because that is all they are good for, but because we love home made burgers and sausages and we have enough hogget for roasts, chops etc.  Old tups are a different question, and it depends very much on personal preference whether you enjoy eating them.

I will try your Navarin of Old Biddy Sally  :yum: :wave:

Just check before you send them off that your old ewes do have some meat on them and are not just toast racks.
Title: Re: Can you eat old sheep?
Post by: robd on August 30, 2011, 05:48:54 pm
Just check before you send them off that your old ewes do have some meat on them and are not just toast racks.

Sensible advice - I'm not very confident of my condition scoring yet, but I'll go through them all and have a good feel.
Title: Re: Can you eat old sheep?
Post by: egglady on August 30, 2011, 07:38:48 pm
brill thread!  we were just wondering what to do with our girl that seems to be quite old and spent the latter part of her pregnancy on her knees for the last 2 years.  cant afford to just let her be a lawnmower so this sounds ideal.
Title: Re: Can you eat old sheep?
Post by: SteveHants on August 30, 2011, 08:12:37 pm
I'm interested to hear that people would eat a 9 yr old sheep. The only sheep I have seen that age were mules of a neighbours and they really were bags of bones. I'd expect to replace a ewe at 5 or 6, and had wondered if they would be worth eating......now I know.  :)
Title: Re: Can you eat old sheep?
Post by: shep53 on August 30, 2011, 08:37:02 pm
Much prefer old ewe mutton to lamb more taste and texture so long as cooked slowly. Old ewes in any condition are worth a fortune at the moment :farmer:
Title: Re: Can you eat old sheep?
Post by: egglady on August 30, 2011, 09:23:26 pm
Much prefer old ewe mutton to lamb more taste and texture so long as cooked slowly. Old ewes in any condition are worth a fortune at the moment :farmer:

shep who are they worth a fortune to?
Title: Re: Can you eat old sheep?
Post by: shep53 on August 30, 2011, 09:40:28 pm
Don't know who's buying them apart from the muslim community but big old ewes £100+ are common and talk of £200 next spring even lean ewes £40+
Title: Re: Can you eat old sheep?
Post by: Collie26 on August 30, 2011, 10:25:17 pm
Just thought id add something on aging ewes the flock im buying my shetland sheep out of has ewes 9,10 and 11 year olds still having lambs, albet singles but still bl**dy good going??

Anyone else heard of this?? Just intregued and excited about getting them
Title: Re: Can you eat old sheep?
Post by: Fronhaul on August 31, 2011, 10:33:28 am
Where are you getting them from Collie26?  I bought four Shetlands from a breeder who had an old retired girl of 13 and they have completely changed my view of Shetlands to the extent I am buying two more from the same source.  The only problem is that I haven't the heart to send these up to the rough fields so ended up buying some wilder ones for that job.  These four (and the two additions) will stay close to the house and are pure pleasure sheep.  Great for getting dogs used to sheep and teaching them manners and fun to be with (and husband loves them because he no longer has to mow the orchard area which is a job he hates).  And it is good having sheep so near the house.  Means I can watch them and learn from their behaviour while I am doing paperwork and the like.
Title: Re: Can you eat old sheep?
Post by: Fleecewife on August 31, 2011, 12:03:41 pm
The age you keep lambing a ewe will depend in part on her breed and breeding, your system ('commercial' or just a few sheep), the quality of pasture, elevation, hardness of winters, feeding regime etc.  This spring we had twins from our 15 yo Hebridean with no problems but she had a bit of extra feeding throughout the winter and we kept a very close eye on her condition throughout. Commercial ewes are I think culled so young because that is when they tend to start losing their front teeth and it is not cost-effective to carry a large number of ewes through that stage.  We breed for long-lasting teeth and might cull a ewe young if she starts to lose teeth before about 8 or 9, as the tendency can be inherited.  What we do find though is that while a ewe is in the process of losing her front teeth, she will struggle to get enough nutrition to carry lambs, but once all the front teeth have gone she will be able to eat properly again with a little support from extra hard feeding, and be back to lambing again.  Our 15 yo lost her teeth at 13 and fortunately was carrying only a single that year.  We would expect about 50% of Hebrideans to go on lambing until they are about 12, but Soays don't seem to be so long-lived, lambing up to about 10.  Shetlands we would expect to lamb up to about 10 too, although a few will go on far longer than that - these figures are for our land, our management and will be different for others.
From the genetic point of view, if you are breeding breeding stock, especially primitives which are expected to be long-lived, it is better to breed from older ewes and tups, so you can know their longevity, how long they keep their teeth, what their feet are like after a good few years and so on.
Title: Re: Can you eat old sheep?
Post by: Bionic on August 31, 2011, 12:09:44 pm
My Nan was a lousey cook (sorry Nan), with the exception of her mutton stew. It was to die for.

No matter how I try I can't quite get it the same but basically its long slow cooking of the mutton with carrots, turnips, onions and some pearl barley.   mmmm my mouth is watering.

Sally
Title: Re: Can you eat old sheep?
Post by: SallyintNorth on August 31, 2011, 04:41:27 pm
Bionic Sally - I bet your Nan had a Rayburn.  A Rayburn can produce a gourmet meal from any pot full of meat and veg with a bit of water, no wine, stock, herbs, 'sealing' or any other culinary tactics required.  I had to re-learn to cook all over again when I lost the Rayburn!
Title: Re: Can you eat old sheep?
Post by: SallyintNorth on August 31, 2011, 05:09:07 pm
I thought the topic of longevity and productivity of ewes warranted its own thread so started one here:

http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=17893.0 (http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=17893.0)
Title: Re: Can you eat old sheep?
Post by: SallyintNorth on August 31, 2011, 05:13:31 pm
Much prefer old ewe mutton to lamb more taste and texture so long as cooked slowly. Old ewes in any condition are worth a fortune at the moment :farmer:

shep who are they worth a fortune to?
Don't know who's buying them apart from the muslim community but big old ewes £100+ are common and talk of £200 next spring even lean ewes £40+

A Pakistani buyer told us that an old biddy could render 2000 doner kebabs.  At £1.50 per doner, that's £3000 from one old ewe.  No wonder they don't mind paying over a hundred quid for a well-fleshed sort!
Title: Re: Can you eat old sheep?
Post by: Collie26 on August 31, 2011, 05:29:02 pm
Fronhaul getting them from a local breeder in county durham Philip cowan. Just got last bit of fencing to to before getting them  ;D
Title: Re: Can you eat old sheep?
Post by: onnyview on September 01, 2011, 07:18:11 pm
Typical. I wait years for another member of this forum to mention Hill Radnors and its about cull ewes! ;D

I love Hill Radnors, they are such fantastic sheep!!

Anyhoo, of the soap box. ;) ;)

A fellow Radnor breeder told me he got £55 each for some very poor condition ewes recently. They were in a pen with 5 Suffolk ewes who went for £100 each and there is more than double the amount of meat on a Suffolk.

We have failed in selling some of our Balwens ewes, so they are all off to market and the abattoir soon. I have never eaten mutton (gasp :o) and the smell of hogget does put me off. Don't know why. But, I am determind to eat some mutton with veg and pearl barley and cooked for hours and hours. Mouth is watering already.

On the granny lambing, our eldest Balwens are 8 and have lambed this year, have most of their teeth and look in great condition.
Title: Re: Can you eat old sheep?
Post by: egglady on September 01, 2011, 08:55:22 pm
would welcome folks views on this...we have shetlands and one of our ewes throws out lovely twin lambs each year.  she's the one that some of you will remember i mention is on her knees by the of her pregnancy as she has bad feet, she is also a nightmare to catch.

we had decided not to put her to the tup this year..and probably never again as too much hassle towards the end of pregnancy despite lovely lambs.....

we dont have the luxury of lots of space so wondering if we should send her to the "dark side"....tho seems a bit heartless...

thoughts?
Title: Re: Can you eat old sheep?
Post by: SallyintNorth on September 01, 2011, 09:15:12 pm
It's a very personal thing. 

1.  You can keep her as a pet.  Eventually you will have to make the coup de grace decision - and pay for that and the disposal.
2.  You can send her off 'in the fat'.  You'll get some money for her.  You don't know where she'll go (she may be bought by someone to fatten before being sold again and slaughtered by someone else) or how she'll be treated.  Someone may even decide to breed her again.
3.  You can try to find a pet home for her with someone else.
4.  You can have her slaughtered and butchered for your own use.  You would take her to your local abattoir yourselves and she'd be slaughtered within minutes.  You'd get some delicious mutton and she would have had very little stress.

I had a particular favourite ewe who could have lived a few more years but struggled with her lambs the last two years.  She still had a decent frame and condition and, wanting to be a proper farmer, I put her in the fat ring.  If I had simply said goodbye as she stepped out of the trailer I maybe would not feel so bad about it, but we spent a bit of time at the mart that day and before we left I went to see how she was.  She looked at me with trust, and was clearly reassured to see me.  I walked away feeling dreadful and have never felt any better about it.  If I had that exact decision to make again I would send her to the abattoir and eat her myself.  And I have already told BH that Hillie, my lovely Jersey house cow, will never ever be in a sale ring.

Whatever decision you make is your decision and is right for you.  No-one else can tell you what that is and no-one should judge you for making the decision that is right for you and that ewe.
Title: Re: Can you eat old sheep?
Post by: Fleecewife on September 02, 2011, 12:50:19 am
Very well put Sally.  I would never put an old ewe through the ring - here they either go for slaughter or we keep a few extra specials as unbred pets (they eat far more than any other sheep on the place and live in luxury  ::))  But if we had a larger flock I suppose I would have to think of an alternative way of disposing of older ewes (which for our Hebs would be about 12 to 16/17 yo.)
For your Shetland egglady, what about the final option of dealing with the bad feet?  With a sheep which is difficult to catch it's worth bringing it in to a barn/pen/stable so you can treat it with Golden Hoof or similar and IM Terramycin LA and keep a close eye on it.  A ewe which produces consistently good lambs is worth spending a bit of time on to get those feet cleared up - it is possible.  My OH believes in giving the occasional very bad foot a radical trim to expose any trapped dirt and bugs, then either blue spray or Golden Hoof and IM Terramycin LA every 3 days until the foot is better.  This has worked for us. By keeping it shut in you can look at it every day and the feet will be clean and dry.  It might need a companion though  :sheep: :sheep:
Title: Re: Can you eat old sheep?
Post by: SallyintNorth on September 02, 2011, 09:25:45 am
Good thinking fleecewife.  If her feet don't respond to the treatments, there's an antibiotic the vet can give - mycotil - which is almost a 'magic bullet' for sheep feet.  If you can get the feet sorted out, you could then vaccinate against footrot - though I expect you'd have to ask the vet for a small number of doses or perhaps the vet would know of a local farmer that uses it and could spare a shot or two.  If she cannot be made sound, or still gets lame even with footvax, then you really should cull her - she's a source of infection for the rest of the flock.  And I suppose you maybe should think about that aspect if you did decide to keep her as a pet - would she be infecting the rest of the flock?

Incidentally, we have noticed that sheep do show more lameness in the latter stages of pregnancy - my farming partner on my previous farm says it's a late pregnancy thing; everything gets sore and achey by the last few weeks.  (I wouldn't know, but she does!  ;))

Title: Re: Can you eat old sheep?
Post by: egglady on September 02, 2011, 10:07:27 pm
her feet dont have footrot or anything like that, they just have excessive growth compared to the others.  that, coupled with the fact that she's a nightmare to catch makes it really hard for us to keep her feet trimmede.  she does come in when she lambs and spends a good few days where we handle her and her lambs plenty...howeve,r as soon as she goes back out to the field, she wants nothing to do with us & teaches her lambs the same!

we handle our sheep every day and several of the lambs & their mothers follow us around, but this girl wont even come anywhere near the pen until we are well out of the way.

the other thing is that we dont know how old she actually is as the lady we bought her from wont tell us for some reason.....i have asked several times.